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  • Betrifft

    Júnior, Filho, Neto

    Kommentar


    Verfasser no me bré (700807)  29 Feb. 20, 11:54
    Kommentar

    ... agnome, sufixo ... ?


    Das habe ich schon ein paarmal versucht zu posten. Mal sehen, ob es jetzt durch no me brés nette Vorlage klappt ...



    ___________________


    Grüße in die ziemlich stille Runde. Schönen Samstag noch. (-:

    Diese Woche war ich dabei, Fußball anzuschauen, und habe einen mir unbekannten Brasilianer in Wiki nachgeschlagen. (Namens Marcelo -- wieviele es wohl davon gibt? Rhetorische Frage ...)

    Die Erklärung zu seinem Nachnamen kam mir aber etwas suspekt vor:

    This name uses Portuguese naming customs: the first or maternal family name is Guedes and the second or paternal family name is Filho. [?]
    Marcelo Antônio Guedes Filho (born 20 May 1987), commonly known as Marcelo, is a Brazilian professional footballer who plays as a centre-back for French club Lyon. ...
    https://es.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marcelo_Antôni...


    Stimmt das also tatsächlich, dass Filho auch ein Nachname sein kann? Oder ist jemandem da ein Fehlschluss unterlaufen, wie ich mir gleich gedacht habe?

    Wenn es falsch ist, wie könnten wir denn einen Eintrag formulieren, damit man diesen Sinn von 'Filho' usw. in LEO auffinden könnte? (Und fehlt 'Junior' nicht übrigens auch im englischen LEO?)

    Wird 'agnome' dafür gebraucht, oder eher 'sufixo' oder was? Wie nennt man diese Formen eigentlich auf Deutsch und auf Englisch?



    _____________________

    ... Portuguese ...
    ... [it] is not uncommon for the first born male to be given the father's full name followed by "Júnior" or "Filho" (son), and the next generation's first born male to be given the grandfather's name followed by "Neto" (grandson). Hence Carlos da Silva Gonçalves might choose to name his first born son Carlos da Silva Gonçalves Júnior, who in turn might name his first born son Carlos da Silva Gonçalves Neto, in which case none of the mother's family names are passed on.
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Surnames

    * A man with the same name as his father uses “Jr.” after his name as long as his father is alive. His father may use the suffix “Sr.” for “senior.” The son may either drop the suffix after his father’s death or, if he prefers, retain it so that he won’t be confused with his late father.
    * When a man is named after his father who is a “Jr.,” he is called “the third,” once written with either the numeric 3rd or the Roman numeral III, but now the latter is used almost exclusively.
    https://emilypost.com/advice/mens-names-and-t...

    ... 5. Se o nome completo é igual ao nome de um parente, por exemplo, pai, avô ou tio, o nome pode ser acrescido de um sufixo : Júnior (abreviado Jr.), Filho, Neto ou Sobrinho. O sufixo é sempre escrito com inicial maiúscula e sem vírgula separando-o do restante do nome. Esta prática é rara em Portugal, mas é comum no Brasil. ... Algarismos romanos, como II, III, etc para filhos, netos e bisnetos não são utilizados, pois esta prática não é permitida por lei nem no Brasil e Portugal.
    https://pt.wikipedia.org/wiki/Antropon%C3%ADm...

    Filho ...
    Em algumas línguas e culturas, incluindo os países lusófonos, é a palavra acrescida ao sobrenome de alguém que tenha o mesmo nome que seu pai. Nesse caso é um sinônimo de Júnior (Jr.).
    https://pt.wikipedia.org/wiki/Filho

    O termo agnome também é usado para designar uma parte do nome de um indivíduo que o diferencia de seus homônimos. De facto, algumas famílias possuem membros com o mesmo prenome e sobrenome, sendo que, para diferenciá-los, são acrescidos a eles (por sufixação) um agnome, como Júnior (Jr.), Filho (Fo.), Segundo, Neto, Sobrinho (Sobo.).[1] Em linhagens da nobreza era comum também designar pelo número da ocorrência em algarismos romanos (II para o segundo, III para o terceiro, e assim por diante). Esta prática é admitida legalmente somente(? fonte) no Brasil, onde não é incomum haver várias pessoas da mesma família com o mesmo nome e prenome, diferenciando-se pelo agnome (José Ernesto da Silva, José Ernesto da Silva Filho e José Ernesto da Silva Neto).
    ... O agnome, em regra geral, não é transmissível aos filhos.
    https://pt.wikipedia.org/wiki/Agnome

    An agnomen (Latin: [aŋˈnoːmɛn]; plural: agnomina), in the Roman naming convention, was a nickname, just as the cognomen was initially. However, the cognomina eventually became family names, so agnomina were needed to distinguish between similarly named persons.
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Agnomen

    (Weitergeleitet von Agnomen)
    Ein Beiname (lat. agnomen) ist ein zusätzlicher Personenname, der einer Person beigegeben wird, um sie genauer zu bezeichnen.
    https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Agnomen

    im Deutschen kann man Junior (zum Beispiel wenn Vater und Sohn den gleichen Namen tragen) mit jr. abkürzen. Geht das im Englischen mit junior auch?
    Siehe auch: [en-de] jr.

    #1Verfasser hm -- us (236141) 29 Feb. 20, 12:10
    Kommentar

    Die deutsche und die englische Wikipedia bieten unterschiedliche Informationen zum portugiesischen "filho" :


    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Filho

    Filho is a suffix of a human name, means jr..[1] Notable people with the suffix include: ...


    https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Filho

    Filho ist der Familienname oder Namensteil folgender Personen: ...




    "jr" oder "junior" kenne ich im Englischen in erster Linie von den beiden Präsidenten namens George Bush ... sr (senior) und jr (junior) ... auch aus der englischsprachigen Presse ...


    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/George_H._W._Bush

    George Herbert Walker Bush (June 12, 1924 – November 30, 2018) was an American politician and businessman who served as the 41st president of the United States from 1989 to 1993. Since around 2000 he has usually been called George H. W. Bush, Bush Senior, ...


    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/George_W._Bush

    George Walker Bush (born July 6, 1946) is an American politician and businessman who served as the 43rd president of the United States from 2001 to 2009. A member of the Republican Party, he had previously served as the 46th governor of Texas from 1995 to 2000. Bush is frequently referred to as George W. Bush, Bush Junior, ...



    #2Verfasser no me bré (700807) 29 Feb. 20, 22:11
    Kommentar
    Noch ein Fußballer, von dem ich nicht weiß, ob es sich tatsächlich von einem Nachname bzw. Familienname handelt, wie von der englischen Wikipedia behauptet, oder eben nicht.

    _______________________


    This name uses Portuguese naming customs: the first or maternal family name is Lomba and the second or paternal family name is Neto.
    Pedro Lomba Neto (born 9 March 2000) is a Portuguese professional footballer who plays as a winger for English club Wolverhampton Wanderers.
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pedro_Neto


    Ob das mit dem 'second or paternal family name' wohl stimmt, oder war das vielleicht nur maschinengenerierter Text?
    #3Verfasser hm -- us (236141) 12 Mär. 20, 22:47
     
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