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    need

    Comment
    Hallo,

    ich bin mir nicht sicher, ob

    "...which need suit them not at all"

    geht. Ich freue mich über jeden Kommentar.
    Author inquisitor (789105) 23 Apr 13, 14:53
    Comment
    Was willst du denn sagen?
    #1Author Russisch Brot (340782) 23 Apr 13, 14:57
    Comment
    "...which doesn't necessarily suit them"?
    #2Author weirdo (236636) 23 Apr 13, 14:58
    Comment
    ... which need not suit them at all.

    so mal ohne weiteren Kontext
    #3Author dude (253248) 23 Apr 13, 15:01
    Comment
    #3 Ja, das ist der Ausgangspunkt, aber ich würde die Stellung der Wörter gerne verändern und frage mich, ob das so geht.

    Im Zusammenhang:

    No one be closing the portals,
    were it that love came to call
    which need suit them not at all.
    #4Author inquisitor (789105) 23 Apr 13, 15:14
    Comment
    if it's poetry or a song lyric, just about anything is possible, so you could write it that way for it to rhyme or make rhythmic sense. But I do have misgivings about the first line. :-)
    #5Author dude (253248) 23 Apr 13, 15:37
    Comment
    #5But I do have misgivings about the first line. :-) 

    Why is that?
    #6Author inquisitor (789105) 23 Apr 13, 15:41
    Comment
    No one be closing ...

    sounds like Ebonics to me and doesn't really fit with the "were it" of the next line, IMO.

    And "portals"? Maybe "doors" or "gates" would be better. Portals make me think of Star Trek.
    #7Author dude (253248) 23 Apr 13, 15:48
    Comment
    No one be closing

    doesn't make any sense to me either.

    #8Author Gibson (418762) 23 Apr 13, 15:49
    Comment
    Hmmm...

    I hope people don't take my nick too seriously since this is a serious query :-)

    Are there any other brains out there who would like to lend me a thought?
    #9Author inquisitor (789105) 23 Apr 13, 15:53
    Comment
    Wenn's ein Reggae-Lied ist, kann es gerade noch gehen, aber sonst ist "No one be closing" falsch, und dude hat recht, dass das auf einer anderen Sprachebene ist als das nachfolgende "were it".

    Aber ich habe auch keine Lust auf die Xte Diskussion über "Liedtexte in Sprachen verfassen, die man nicht richtig beherrscht, ja oder nein", also sei's drum.
    #10Author Dragon (238202) 23 Apr 13, 15:55
    Comment
    # 10 Dann hättest du dir deine Antwort auch sparen können.

    edit: Zwar freue ich mich über jeden Kommentar, aber da das hier ein Sprachforum ist, wäre es nett, zu begründen, warum etwas "falsch" ist. Nicht alles, was man nicht kennt oder gleich versteht, ist automatisch "falsch".
    #11Author inquisitor (789105) 23 Apr 13, 16:00
    Comment
    Were it that love came to call means 'if love came to call', right? So perhaps you mean something like 'No-one would close the portal', meaning that if love came to call, they would not close the gates.

    Which need not suit them at all means 'Was ihnen überhaupt nicht passen muss'.

    No one be closing means 'Keiner schließt gerade' as said in an African American dialect.
    #12Author CM2DD (236324) 23 Apr 13, 16:08
    Comment
    aber da das hier ein Sprachforum ist, wäre es nett, zu begründen, warum etwas "falsch" ist. Nicht alles, was man nicht kennt oder gleich versteht, ist automatisch "falsch"

    Ich bin leider kein Grammatiklexikon, sondern bloß Muttersprachler, deshalb kann ich es nicht begründen, aber richtig wäre "no one is closing" oder " no one can/should/... be closing". Irgendein Verb, entweder "to be" oder ein Hilfsverb (sind das Modalverben? Das muss Dir jemand anders sagen, wie die heißen) muss halt konjugiert werden. Es sei denn, das Ganze soll in irgendeinem Dialekt geschrieben sein, darauf lässt der Rest Deines Verses aber nicht schließen.
    #13Author Dragon (238202) 23 Apr 13, 16:15
    Comment
    Thanks CM2DD!

    I do know what it means. My initial question was if "which need suit them not at all" would be Ok to say in terms of "correct" syntax. I know it sounds slightly awkward. "No one be closing" is supposed to be imperative, and I have no idea what "Keiner schließt gerade" means.

    ?
    #14Author inquisitor (789105) 23 Apr 13, 16:18
    Comment
    "Keiner schließt gerade" - Das ist aber keine Befehlsform, sondern einfach eine Aussage.

    "which need suit them not at all" - wie gesagt: unmöglich. Geht nicht.
    #15AuthorBraunbärin (757733) 23 Apr 13, 16:20
    Comment
    #15 Wie gesagt? Bislang hat das noch niemand gesagt...

    edit: "Keiner schließt gerade" - Das ist aber keine Befehlsform, sondern einfach eine Aussage.

    Das weiß ich auch, es geht aber um das Englische.
    #16Author inquisitor (789105) 23 Apr 13, 16:23
    Comment
    'No-one be closing' is a dialectal form of 'No-one is closing'. The imperative would be 'No-one close the portal'. If you start with an imperative then the 'were it' part doesn't work any more, as that is part of a conditional I sentence imagining what would happen if love came. After an imperative you need a conditional 0 form: No-one close the portal should love come to call.
    #17Author CM2DD (236324) 23 Apr 13, 16:26
    Comment
    Ich wiederhole meine #1: wenn Du auf Deutsch formulieren würdest, was Du überhaupt sagen willst, könnte man Dir besser helfen.
    #18Author Russisch Brot (340782) 23 Apr 13, 16:29
    Comment
    I'd agree with dude that 'which need suit them not at all' would just about be OK in a poem. It's grammatically similar to 'That suits me not one bit'. I can't say that I understand what the lyrics mean, though.
    #19Author CM2DD (236324) 23 Apr 13, 16:31
    Comment
    I wanted to substitute "no one shall close" with "no one be closing" as an imperative that emphasizes the act of closing a portal. I know that this is not a common way of putting it, and now I'm completely off the track...:-)

    What is the difference between "should love come to call" and "were it that love came to call"? Until now I didn't know that there was a difference in functional grammar...??
    #20Author inquisitor (789105) 23 Apr 13, 16:48
    Comment
    Don't close the door should John visit.
    = Don't close the door if John visits.
    = It's likely that John will visit. If he does, don't close the door.

    I wouldn't close the door were John to visit. (More awkwardly: were it that John visited.)
    = I wouldn't close the door if John visited.
    = Let's imagine that John might visit. If he did, I wouldn't close the door.
    #21Author CM2DD (236324) 23 Apr 13, 16:54
    Comment
    "Were it that" is often used poetically to mean something like "if only ..." For example:
    Were it that I could feel the tender touch of your lips upon mine

    So in your poem/song, I read
    were it that love came to call
    to mean "if only love came to call."
    #22Author dude (253248) 23 Apr 13, 16:57
    Comment
    #21 Thanks for your examples. May I read them as a confirmation that there is no differrence in grammar, notwithstanding your notion of the latter as an awkward alternative?

    #22 Actually, I think that "only" is rather an interpretation. It emphasizes a desire which I can't see in the expression as such. But I do agree that it could be read that way.
    #23Author inquisitor (789105) 23 Apr 13, 17:08
    Comment
    #22 For that meaning I'd use a modal verb as in your other example, dude.
    #24Author CM2DD (236324) 23 Apr 13, 17:09
    Comment
    #23 No, you may not. There is a difference in grammar and meaning between 'if love comes (should come) to call' and 'if love came (were to come) to call'.
    #25Author CM2DD (236324) 23 Apr 13, 17:10
    Comment
    "No one be closing" is supposed to be imperative

    In Analogie zu "You better be watching your back"?

    Da würde mich auch interessieren: "You better be closing the door" wäre doch ein...naja, ich glaube technisch gesehen kein Imperativ, aber zumindest ein Ratschlag den man nicht ablehnen sollte.
    Oder funktioniert die Verlaufsform hier nicht?

    Mir ist natürlich klar, dass das eine andere Struktur ist, ich will nicht behaupten dass "No one be closing" funktioniert oder gar "funktionieren müsse", ich wollte nur spekulieren wo die Formulierung herkommt...
    #26AuthorYora Unfug (694297) 23 Apr 13, 17:11
    Comment
    No one will be closing the door / if love comes to call
    (das ist jedoch kein Imperativ)

    You better be watching your back bzw. "You better be closing the door" - Yora, nein, das muss heißen: "You had better watch your back / close the door"
    ?

    Man wird hier aber ganz plem-plem, da inquisitor nach wie vor nicht sagt, was er/sie eigentlich auf Deutsch sagen will.
    #27AuthorBraunbärin (757733) 23 Apr 13, 17:18
    Comment
    @27: ..und uns andererseits nicht glauben will, dass sein Satz falsch ist und so einfach nicht geht...
    #28Author Dragon (238202) 23 Apr 13, 17:20
    Comment
    I could imagine someone saying 'You better be watchin' your back', again as an (African?) American dialect form.

    I still don't know what the song lyrics are supposed to mean, but hey, that never stopped me from enjoying the works of A-ha as a teenager :-)

    Maybe make it:

    No-one don't gonna be closin' those portals
    When that love gone come to call
    #29Author CM2DD (236324) 23 Apr 13, 17:22
    Comment
    Hmm, ich hätte wetten können, "You better be joking/kidding me" sei z.B. allgemeine Umgangssprache.
    Danke für die Aufklärung dass dem nicht so ist.
    #30AuthorYora Unfug (694297) 23 Apr 13, 17:28
    Comment
    'You'd better be joking' is indeed more widespread slang, meaning 'I hope you are joking', i.e. not as an imperative. If it was used as an imperative I would again assume it was a dialect.
    #31Author CM2DD (236324) 23 Apr 13, 17:33
    Comment
    You better be doing your homework when I get home

    for instance is not something that's relegated to African-Americans, and I'd prefer

    Ain't no one gonna be closin' no portals
    When that doggone love be comin' to call

    to CM2DD's version. :-)
    #32Author dude (253248) 23 Apr 13, 17:38
    Comment
    'You better be doing your homework when I get home' means 'I hope you are in the middle of doing your homework when I arrive'. The continuous form is standard.

    When giving instructions you'd say e.g. 'You'd better do your homework when you get home', meaning 'After you arrive you should do your homework'.

    Using the continuous form when giving instructions (You better be doing your homework when you get home' meaning 'After you arrive you should do your homework') strikes me as dialectal.
    #33Author CM2DD (236324) 23 Apr 13, 17:43
    Comment
    I may be wrong, but I don't think too many mothers would say "you better be doing your homework when you get home," African-American mothers included.
    #34Author dude (253248) 23 Apr 13, 17:53
    Comment
    Just as many as would say "You better be closing the door" from #26, maybe!
    #35Author CM2DD (236324) 23 Apr 13, 18:03
    Comment
    Hmmm, there could be a situation where this is being said. Maybe someone on the phone is telling his/her child "you better be closing the door this very instant!"
    #36Author dude (253248) 23 Apr 13, 18:11
    Comment
    You guys, thanks so much. I'm glad I asked because I was literally lost in translation (from a Romance language) with grammatical forms that exist neither in English nor in German. Now I have decided to ditch it and will hang dude's

    Ain't no one gonna be closin' no portals
    When that doggone love be comin' to call

    over my bed tonight to shield me from grammatical temptations, vexations, and any other heinous mischief and to help me plegde my allegiance to the Holy Midwest.

    Ach so, laut der Autorität von #10 beherrsche ich das Englische ja nicht richtig, deshalb vergesst am besten alle meine diesbezücklichen bei träge!
    #37Author inquisitor (789105) 23 Apr 13, 21:42
     
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