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  • Betrifft

    it's very tricky finding

    Can you say it's very tricky finding a job?
    Verfasser luciesuzanne (836303) 03 Nov. 13, 18:06
    #1Verfasser Werner (236488) 03 Nov. 13, 18:11
    #2Verfasser luciesuzanne (836303) 03 Nov. 13, 18:21
    That you cannot say. The proper word is thanks.
    #3Verfasser Werner (236488) 03 Nov. 13, 18:24
    The proper wording is "thank you." Just "thanks" is not proper.
    #4Verfasser dude (253248) 03 Nov. 13, 21:01
    But more in line with colloquial language than the unexisting word used.
    #5Verfasser Werner (236488) 03 Nov. 13, 21:37
    What does "unexisting" mean? Non-existing?
    I'm sure if you google "thanx" you'll get millions of hits.
    #6Verfasser dude (253248) 03 Nov. 13, 21:44
    Actually, I think most English speakers would say

    Finding a job during an economic recession can be very tricky


    It can be very tricky to find a job during an economic recession.

    I added the other phrase because I don't think 'tricky' is exactly the adjective we would use to describe trying to find a job under normal circumstances.
    #7Verfasser hm -- us (236141) 03 Nov. 13, 21:54
    I'm not sure that's necessary. It's very tricky - okay, "difficult" might be a better word - finding a job these days (I'm told) despite the economy improving - supposedly. It's even trickier if you're a college graduate or simply just a young person, and it's most tricky if you're an older person having to find a new job - recession or not.
    #8Verfasser dude (253248) 03 Nov. 13, 22:01
    Re #2:

    To be fair to Luciesuzanne, we should acknowledge that (at least in America) it is quite normal to just say Thanks, unless circumstances require the more formal Thank You. In a very informal forum such as Leo, I also find Thanx completely appropriate (but of course it's not appropriate for most other situations).
    #9VerfasserHappyWarrior (964133) 04 Nov. 13, 02:23
    Re #9: I should have ended my comment with the word Thanx.
    #10VerfasserHappyWarrior (964133) 04 Nov. 13, 02:34
    LEO ist not, rpt. not informal in terms of grammar and orthography.
    #11Verfasser Werner (236488) 04 Nov. 13, 08:33
    "Tricky" is definitely not wrong, but it just doesn't feel right in this context somehow; "finding a job these days is an uphill battle/fight/struggle" e.g. implies more that one is really seriously seeking I think.
    #12Verfassermikefm (760309) 04 Nov. 13, 09:00

    Respectfully, Werner, isn't "rpt." informal?
    #13VerfasserHappyWarrior (964133) 04 Nov. 13, 09:09
    #14Verfasser Werner (236488) 04 Nov. 13, 09:12
    Yes, it is. And the punctuation is all wrong.
    #15Verfasser RTH01 (932829) 04 Nov. 13, 12:04
    Zu #11: LEO ist not, rpt. not informal in terms of grammar and orthography.

    Tut mir leid, Werner, aber das ist albern. Ist Dir in all den Jahren bei LEO tatsächlich noch nie aufgefallen, dass viele Beiträge absichtlich in einem mündliche Kommunikation nachahmenden, lockeren Stil verfasst werden, etwa um die Atmosphäre eines vertrauten Gesprächs unter Freunden auch in diesem auf Schriftlichkeit angewiesenen Medium entstehen zu lassen? Dazu zählen auch unvollständige Sätze wie der Deine in #5, der streng genommen einen grammatischen Verstoß darstellt: Subjekt und Verb fehlen.

    In diese Kategorie fällt für mich auch die Verwendung von scherzhaften Schreibformen wie thanx oder Xmas und von Emoticons. Sollen Deiner Meinung nach auch alle Smileys (Verzeihung: für Anglizismen-Hasser vielleicht eher "aus Interpunktionszeichen zusammengestellte grafische Darstellungen in Form eines um 90 Grad gegen den Uhrzeigersinn gedrehten Gesichts zur symbolischen Wiedergabe von Empfindungen") aus LEO verbannt werden?
    #16Verfasser Cro-Mignon (751134) 04 Nov. 13, 12:35
    aus Interpunktionszeichen zusammengestellte grafische Darstellungen in Form eines um 90 Grad gegen den Uhrzeigersinn gedrehten Gesichts zur symbolischen Wiedergabe von Empfindungen")

    marvellous :-))))))))))))
    #17Verfassermikefm (760309) 04 Nov. 13, 13:49
    Darf ich nochmal auf die #0 zurückkommen?

    Ist "it's tricky finding" richtig? Ich hätte "it's tricky to find" gesagt.
    (Jetzt ganz unabhängig davon, ob tricky hier passt, oder nicht.)

    Sind beide Formen möglich?
    #18Verfasser Fragezeichen (240970) 04 Nov. 13, 14:00
    both "finding" and "to find" are possible; but see #7 for two examples of usage.
    #19Verfassermikefm (760309) 04 Nov. 13, 14:05
    Danke! :)
    #20Verfasser Fragezeichen (240970) 04 Nov. 13, 14:10
    I don't feel comfortable with the use of "tricky" - it is hard to find a job, or difficult. Tricky suggests that it is possible, and not really hard, provided one knows the right people/handshake/procedure.

    Which may very well be what the OP is trying to say, of course.

    "It's tricky finding a job in this field - best make sure to get someone fired, that should create an opening for you."
    #21Verfasser BryceS (858421) 04 Nov. 13, 14:26
    Tricky suggests that it is possible, and not really hard, provided one knows the right people/handshake/procedure.

    That's not what "tricky" means to me.

    Pronunciation: /ˈtrɪki/
    adjective (trickier, trickiest)

    1(of a task, problem, etc.) requiring care and skill because difficult or awkward:
    applying eyeliner can be a tricky business
    the radio is tricky to operate

    2deceitful or crafty:
    I wouldn’t trust her—she’s tricky

    #22Verfasser SD3 (451227) 04 Nov. 13, 14:39
    Zu #22:

    Ein eindrückliches Verwendungsbeispiel dieser Bedeutung von tricky:

    "O Deep Thought Computer," he said, "the task we have designed you to perform is this. We want you to tell us ..." he paused, "... the Answer!"
    "The Answer?" said Deep Thought. "The Answer to what?"
    "Life!" urged Fook.
    "The Universe!" said Lunkwill.
    "Everything!" they said in chorus.
    Deep Thought paused for a moment's reflection.
    "Tricky," he said finally.
    "But can you do it?"
    Again, a significant pause.
    "Yes," said Deep Thought, "I can do it." [...] "There is an answer. But," he added, "I'll have to think about it."
    [...] "the programme will take me a little while to run."
    Fook glanced impatiently at his watch.
    "How long?" he said.
    "Seven and a half million years," said Deep Thought.

    (Douglas Adams: The Hitch Hiker's Guide to the Galaxy. London: Pan Books 1997, p.128-130)

    #23Verfasser Cro-Mignon (751134) 04 Nov. 13, 15:10
    #24Verfasser SD3 (451227) 04 Nov. 13, 15:23
    Re #18:
    As I said in #7, no, I don't think most native speakers would use the gerund in predicate position. So to me, #1 was not a very good answer.

    Re #11:
    'Thanx' may be mildly out of place in a forum where we prefer not to use text-message abbreviations, but 'rpt.' for the word 'repeat' is completely unidiomatic here.
    #25Verfasser hm -- us (236141) 04 Nov. 13, 17:55
    I would disagree with hm. Native (AE) speakers use the gerund a lot in that position: it's not easy being green (à la Kermit the Frog), for example, or it's tricky being Nicki Minaj: http://www.sunshinecoastdaily.com.au/news/its...
    It's tricky being Nicki Minaj
    #26Verfasser dude (253248) 04 Nov. 13, 18:10
    Did you do a direct comparison of the gerund with the infinitive? I would think the infinitive is far more common, enough so that the examples you mention could be called exceptions to the rule. (Kermit, in fact, could be partly to go with the tune.)

    If you gave the question to native speakers as a fill-in-the-blank exercise,

    It's not easy ____________ (find) a job

    I think most would choose the infinitive -- so learners may need to be aware that that should be their first choice too, in case a similar question appears on TOEFL or Cambridge.
    #27Verfasser hm -- us (236141) 04 Nov. 13, 18:53
    No, I did not do a comparison, and you may well be right that the infinitive yields more hits, but my point really was that the gerund seems to be fairly common even among what we might consider proper English speakers, such as professional resume writers and journalists. Look here:
    It’s not easy finding a job, but it can be done. It takes persistence and the right approach, including an effective resume.

    It’s not easy finding a job in today’s economy, particularly in the upper echelons of the business world where there is so much competition.

    It’s not easy finding a job right after graduation, but it’s not impossible if you focus on what you want and gaining experience in different areas of interest.

    Edit: I also hink there's a difference in usage, depending on context. For example, the gerund would most likely be used in lieu of a noun, as in "(the act/process of) finding a job ..." vs. "the job wasn't easy to find; I had to look through dozens of web sites."
    #28Verfasser dude (253248) 04 Nov. 13, 19:01
    Well, Fox News ... (-;

    I don't know, those just all sound a bit off to me, and I still am skeptical that gerund/infinitive lessons in ESL would (or should) really teach that it's equally idiomatic. But maybe it's just me, or maybe there's some slight AE/BE difference.

    Though actually, both you and mikefm seem to agree that 'finding' is more idiomatic in the subject than in the predicate, which is what I said in #7.

    Too bad not very many other English speakers have commented here on that actual issue.
    #29Verfasser hm -- us (236141) 04 Nov. 13, 21:35
    Those starting at the bottom of this thread can jump to #7 and then stop reading.
    #30Verfasser Jurist (US) (804041) 05 Nov. 13, 01:45
    #30 That applies to this as well. (8-)

    #16 hm might take exception to your definition of smileys.
    #31VerfasserMikeE (236602) 05 Nov. 13, 02:21
    I'm guessing that, at this late point, Luciesuzanne is tired of all this discussion and sorry she asked the question. Nevertheless, I want to address her OP.

    In my opinion, (in AE) it's just fine to say: "It's very tricky finding a job [in this economy, etc.]." I cannot see how anyone can reasonably object to that usage. In fact, especially in our present economy, I feel confident it HAS been said, thousands of times--and properly so.
    #32VerfasserHappyWarrior (964133) 05 Nov. 13, 02:56
    Zu #31: hm might take exception to your definition of smileys.

    Das möchte ich natürlich nicht; ich streiche deshalb "gegen den Uhrzeigersinn". :-) [aka (-:]

    (Streng genommen gilt die Definition ohnehin nicht für Smileys, sondern für Emoticons; sorry.)
    #33Verfasser Cro-Mignon (751134) 05 Nov. 13, 09:59
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