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  • Betrifft

    "that" oder nicht "that"?

    Kommentar
    "Through such caves it was once rumoured that pirates and smugglers would drag kegs of rum and crates of tobacco and lace all the way to London to provide the wealthy with all they desired without paying import duty."

    Von hier: https://www.mylondon.news/news/nostalgia/sout...

    Ich halte das "that" für falsch und würde den Satz eher so fassen:

    "Through such caves (it was once rumoured) pirates and smugglers would drag ..."

    Die Klammern habe ich nur zur Verdeutlichung eingesetzt.
    Verfasser B.L.Z. Bubb (601295) 15 Jun. 22, 19:28
    Kommentar

    Ich halte das 'that' für richtig. In deiner Version bräuchte es Kommas.


    Es wird klarer, wenn du ihn umstellst:


    It was once rumoured that pirates would drag... through such caves.

    #1Verfasser Gibson (418762) 15 Jun. 22, 20:25
    Kommentar

    I agree with Bubb and with Gibson. With Bubb in finding the "that" to be wrong; with Gibson in requiring commas. I would write, either:


    (a) Through such caves, it was once rumored, pirates and smugglers would drag ...; or


    (b) It was once rumored that pirates and smugglers would drag...

    #2Verfasser Martin--cal (272273) 15 Jun. 22, 21:39
    Kommentar

    Stimmt, im OP steht zwar ein korrekter Satz, die Aussage ist aber eine ganz andere: Dass die Gerüchte durch die Höhlen zustande kamen. Man sollte gelegentlich auch auf den Inhalt gucken...

    #3Verfasser Gibson (418762) 15 Jun. 22, 23:24
    Kommentar
    They probably raced all the way to London, though.
    #4Verfasser wupper (354075) 16 Jun. 22, 00:15
    Kommentar

    Chinese pirates?

    #5Verfasser Gibson (418762) 16 Jun. 22, 01:14
    Kommentar
    Danke, Ihr alle. Gibson, den Ursprungssatz hatte ich auch genauso verstanden.
    #6Verfasser B.L.Z. Bubb (601295) 16 Jun. 22, 06:16
    Kommentar

    #4

    Wieso? Sie schmuggeln Rum, Tabak und teure Textilien nach London. Ich sehe keinen Grund, da einen Fehler zu vermuten.

    #7Verfasser Thirith (1037221) 16 Jun. 22, 08:44
    Kommentar

    Mit "lace" dürfte vermutlich Brüsseler Spitze gemeint sein, die damals WIMRE sehr sehr teuer und entsprechend begehrt war. Brüssel war wohl ein Produktionsschwerpunkt für das Zeug.

    #8Verfasser B.L.Z. Bubb (601295) 16 Jun. 22, 08:51
    Kommentar

    Is no one else bothered by the gerund clause at the end? Who is its subject: the smugglers or the wealthy? If it is the smugglers, isn't it completely unnecessary? (Smugglers, by definition, do not pay duty). If it is the wealthy, you have a gerund clause whose subject is omitted but is not the same as the subject of the main clause - am I the only person who finds that jarring?

    #9VerfasserAE procrastinator (1268904) 16 Jun. 22, 12:21
    Kommentar

    It seems clear to me that they dragged the kegs through the caves. I can't see anyone thinking that the caves caused the rumours. If I meant "due to such caves", I'd write "due to such caves", as "through" is mainly used in English in a literal, physical sense rather than to mean "because of". I'd only use it to mean "because of" when there was no confusion with the physical meaning. That's definitely not the case here.

    #10Verfasser CM2DD (236324) 16 Jun. 22, 12:31
    Kommentar

    I'd say it's the pirates and smugglers who don't have to pay import duty - they're the ones importing it, so they would normally have to pay the duty. Of course smugglers don't normally do that, but you can still point that out explicitly to show why they were doing the smuggling. You can smuggle things for other reasons than avoiding import duty.

    #11Verfasser CM2DD (236324)  16 Jun. 22, 12:33
    Kommentar

    #10 I agree.


    ##9,11: Interesting. I think one assumes that the point of this kind of smuggling is to avoid duty, so I take this to refer to "the wealthy". That being so, the way it is formulated is a bit sloppy, though a casual reader might not notice any problem.

    #12VerfasserHecuba - UK (250280)  16 Jun. 22, 13:37
    Kommentar

    The whole article is on the sloppy side :) but to be fair to the writer, the subject is pretty interesting!

    #13Verfasser CM2DD (236324) 16 Jun. 22, 13:47
     
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