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    Sprachlabor

    Unentschieden: draw vs. tie - is there an AE / BE difference?

    Betrifft

    Unentschieden: draw vs. tie - is there an AE / BE difference?

    Kommentar

    Soeben lese ich in der NYT folgende Passage über ein WM-Spiel zwischen England und den USA im Jahr 2010:


    The fact that it did not turn out that way — the game ended, as you may be dimly aware, as what one side called a draw and the other a tie — probably had some influence in changing the perception of the U.S. team,....


    Gibt es einen AE / BE-Unterschied zwischen der Verwendung von "draw" und "tie"?

    Verfasser Jesse_Pinkman (991550) 25 Nov. 22, 09:10
    Kommentar

    Ich (keine NES) assoziiere "draw" eher mit britischem Englisch, und im Cambridge Dictionary ist es in dieser Bedeutung auch mit "UK" gekennzeichnet:


    DRAW | English meaning - Cambridge Dictionary


    draw noun (EQUAL SCORE)

    [ C ] UK

    a situation in which each team in a game has equal points and neither side wins:

    The result was a draw.


    draw verb (EQUAL)

    C1 [ I ] UK

    to finish a game with the same number of points as the other person or team:

    Coventry drew 1–1 with United in the semifinal.


    Was sagen die NES?


    OT: Jetzt habe ich die Stimme des Schwarzen Ritters aus "Die Ritter der Kokosnuss" im Ohr: "All right, we'll call it a draw."

    Monty python holy grail black knight all right we'll call it a draw - YouTube

    #1Verfasser imaginary woman (398289)  25 Nov. 22, 09:33
    Kommentar

    OED:

    The more usual term in North America for a match in which each competitor has the same score is tie


    I'd use either term, but I am not that into sports. Google says there's some special distinction between the two in cricket.


    #2Verfasser CM2DD (236324) 25 Nov. 22, 09:40
    Kommentar

    I agree that "unentschieden" is best translated as "draw" in BE and "tie" in AE.

    What makes it confusing is that in BE a "cup tie" means simply a match in a competition with a cup, but it says nothing about the result of this match, so you can say something like "team A beat team B in their cup tie" or even "team A and team B drew after full time in their cup tie, so the result was decided by penalties".

    #2: Regarding cricket: If the match is unable to be played to a conclusion because the time runs out, then it is drawn, regardless of the scores, whereas it is tied if it is played to a conclusion within the available time and both teams have the same score.

    Edit: The comments above apply to team sports like football/soccer (BE)/(AE), cricket, rugby etc. In tennis, a tie break is a tie break in BE and AE (and in any case, a tennis match can't be drawn/tied).

    #3Verfasser Slartibladfarst (879323)  25 Nov. 22, 11:25
    Kommentar

    Just to confirm what #1-3 said: by far the more usual word in BE is draw, but everyone understands (and even uses, on occasion) tie.


    In the dictionaries -- Macmillan, Cambridge, Oxford Learners, Collins -- draw is marked BE, while tie DOESN'T have an AE tag in return.


    Compare the Macmillan entries for draw and tie (verbs rather than nouns):


    https://www.macmillandictionary.com/dictionar...

    draw

    INTRANSITIVE/TRANSITIVE ​BRITISH

    if two teams or opponents draw, they both have the same score so neither wins. The American word is tie


    https://www.macmillandictionary.com/dictionar...

    tie

    INTRANSITIVE/TRANSITIVE ______

    if two players or teams in a game tie, they both have the same number of points



    And as Slartibladfarst also says, in BE a tie can also just mean a match ("we won the cup tie" / "we lost the cup tie" / "we drew the cup tie") - here's the dictionary entry from Macmillan:


    https://www.macmillandictionary.com/dictionar...

    2 BRITISH one game that is part of a competition

    a second-round tie


    The difference between these two types of ties -- a draw, or a match -- will be obvious to a BE speaker in context.

    #4Verfasser papousek (343122) 25 Nov. 22, 12:50
    Kommentar

    presumably therefore all the references to 'draws' in the existing unentschieden entry should have BE tags?


    Siehe Wörterbuch: Unentschieden


    Although MW doesn't have a Brit. tag:


    https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/dr...

    a contest left undecided or deadlocked TIE


    Comments from Americans?

    #5Verfasser papousek (343122)  25 Nov. 22, 12:52
    Kommentar

    Da nun einmal Freitag ist:


    Ich war unentschieden, welche von meinen Unentschieden ich aus dem Unentschiedener herausnehmen sollte.


    Alles klar?

    #6Verfasser mbshu (874725) 25 Nov. 22, 12:55
    Kommentar

    This US-American would normally use tie for a soccer game, and probably in other contexts where there are actual points at stake, but would not be disturbed by "draw" in that context. But if the contest did not involve points , and the two sides seemed to have performed equally well, I would say "draw" not "tie" - about a debate, for instance. Or, gosh, say a Monopoly game that was down to the last two players and looked like it would go on forever, I'd say "can't you just call it a draw?"

    #7VerfasserAE procrastinator (1268904)  25 Nov. 22, 21:09
    Kommentar

    #2: Regarding cricket: If the match is unable to be played to a conclusion because the time runs out, then it is drawn, regardless of the scores, whereas it is tied if it is played to a conclusion within the available time and both teams have the same score. (#3)


    Because cricket scores are very high (several hundred for the total of a team's two innings), ties are very rare in "Tests", i.e. top-level international cricket matches played over several days. In fact there have only ever been two such results in the almost 150-year history of Test cricket. Draws, on the other hand, are unfortunately all too common.

    #8Verfasser Stravinsky (637051)  25 Nov. 22, 22:36
     
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