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    stricken look

    Comment
    Ich möchte wissen, ob ich auch stricken glance sagen kann - oder ist das unüblich?
    AuthorSilenia (428461) 04 Apr 08, 19:36
    Comment
    stricken how? a panic-stricken glance? terror-stricken? grief-stricken?
    #1Authordude (253248) 04 Apr 08, 20:10
    Comment
    "It's death", he told her, wanting to explain.
    Her eyes burst open, pinning him with a stricken look.
    "It's death that frightens you so."
    He felt slightly afraid himself now.

    Annette Curtis Klause, "The Silver Kiss"


    stricken = 1. obs. verwundet; 2. (with) heimgesucht, schwer betroffen (von Unglück ets.), befallen (von Krankheit), ergriffen (von Schrecken, Schmerz etc.); schwer geprüft (Person)

    Langenscheidt
    #2AuthorSilenia (428461) 04 Apr 08, 21:44
    Comment
    Since it's in English already, are you looking for a different English version? I'm not sure I understand your quest.
    #3Authordude (253248) 04 Apr 08, 21:50
    Comment
    Naja, ich weiß aus dem Buch ("The Silver Kiss"), daß es den Ausdruck "stricken look" gibt (ich bin allerdings erstaunt, daß er Dir nicht viel sagt, dude - vielleicht ist er dann nicht so gut). Ich möchte wissen, ob ich sagen kann:

    "He hadn't expected the stricken glance that Aidan cast at him."

    (Es handelt sich um eine ganz andere Geschichte. Ich hab das Beispiel aus "The Silver Kiss" nur angeführt, weil ich erklären wollte, wie ich auf "stricken look" komme.)
    #4AuthorSilenia (428461) 04 Apr 08, 23:41
    Comment
    a stricken glance doesn't work too well, IMHO. A "glance" is something more subtle than a "look," which can be just about anything. One can look surprised, shocked, stricken, sad, etc. But with "glance," you're a bit more limited. A "glace" is perhaps a bit less of a reaction than a "look" and maybe a bit more intentional.
    #5Authordude04 Apr 08, 23:54
    Comment
    Hm ... Also, Du meinst, "glance" funktioniert nicht, weil ein "glance" etwas Beabsichtigtes ist. Ich dachte, der Unterschied wäre bloß, daß "glance" ein flüchtiger Blick ist - danke für diesen Hinweis, er ist mir sehr nützlich!

    Wie könnte ich meinen Satz also richtig formulieren?

    "He hadn't expected the stricken look that Aidan gave him."

    Vielleicht so?
    #6AuthorSilenia (428461) 05 Apr 08, 00:01
    Comment
    das ginge, z.B.

    Ich will ja nicht sagen, dass "stricken glance" gar nicht geht, aber eben weil es, wie Du richtig sagst, flüchtig (subtle) ist, passt das nicht so gut wie "look," finde ich.
    #7Authordude05 Apr 08, 00:15
    Comment
    Danke, dude. Du hast mir sehr geholfen! Gute Nacht ... :-)
    #8AuthorSilenia (428461) 05 Apr 08, 00:19
    Comment
    Fuer mich ist der Unterschied der, dass ein look sowohl 'aktiv' (Blick) als auch 'passiv' (Anblick, Ausdruck) sein kann, waehrend ein glance immer 'aktiv' ist (ein [fluechtiger] Blik) - 'aktiv' und 'passiv' sind wahrscheinlich nicht die richtigen grammatischen Ausdruecke, vielleicht eher reflexiv und ?... Ein 'stricken look' ist also ein betroffener[Gesichts-]Ausdruck' (passiv), waehrend ein 'stricken glance' ein '[fluechtiger,] betroffener Blick' (aktiv) waere. Ich glaube nicht, dass man jemandem einen 'betroffenen' Blick zuwerfen kann, bzw dass 'betroffen' oder 'heimgesucht' passende Adjektive sind, um einen 'Blick' zu beschreiben. Jemand kann betroffen aussehen, also einen 'stricken look' haben aber ein 'stricken glance' hoert sich doch irgendwie komisch an.
    #9Authorgo_Habs_go (379735) 05 Apr 08, 01:57
    Comment
    Go Habs hat's ziemlich gut getroffen. Ein "look" ist in diesem Falle, wie er sagt, das Aussehen, wie man aussieht. "She had a stricken look" bedeutet, dass sie so aussah, als ob sie getroffen oder betroffen oder geschlagen war -- "stricken" ist naemlich "past participle" von "strike".

    "Stricken glance" ist demnach einfach unsinnig. In Deutsch waere es ungefaehr: "Sie sah in geschlagen an."
    #10AuthorBob C. (254583) 05 Apr 08, 02:53
    Comment
    http://www.newspaperarchive.com/LandingPage.a...
    ... stuffed with an old the sagging bureau propped with a block of the shabby rug a mute pair of shoes beside a chair His stricken glance came to the bed at ...
     
    http://www.billpullman.org/goat/reviews.htm
    A quick, stricken glance. A faltering, almost choking voice. The actor expertly portrays the horror he feels in hurting the people he loves.

    I tend to disagree with that assessment. There are lots of google hit for "panic/terror/orror-stricken glance" as well as simply "stricken glance." I do thing it's a bit of an unusal usage, but I wouldn't call it "unsinnig"...
    #11Authordude05 Apr 08, 04:05
    Comment
    sorry 'bout my typos; it's been a long day
    #12Authordude05 Apr 08, 04:06
    Comment
    Wow, das war ja noch mal interessant. Danke für die Recherche, dude! ^-^
    #13AuthorSilenia (428461) 05 Apr 08, 19:16
    Comment
    Let's agree to disagree here, dude. Not everything that gets 'a lot of google hits' is correct and one could argue the difference between 'unusual' and 'unsinnig' in this case ... pretty fine line, if you'd ask me.
    #14Authorgo_Habs_go (379735) 05 Apr 08, 19:24
    Comment
    @go_Habs_go: we can certainly disagree, but I would like to point out that the second link is a review by an Associated Press writer. Not that that means everything the man says is pure gold, but AP writers do have to go through a process of being edited, often more than once.

    One of the several meanings for "stricken" is "wounded, hit, as if by a missile, e.g." Certainly if there's a "wounded look," I don't see why there couldn't be a "stricken glance." Again, I think it's a bit unusual, but not "unsinnig." :-)
    #15Authordude05 Apr 08, 20:03
    Comment
    ...again, the reason is that one can certainly look wounded but can you really look at someone (=glance) woundedly?
    #16Authorgo_Habs_go (379735) 05 Apr 08, 20:20
    Comment
    Es geht im Deutschen.
    Sie warf ihm einen verletzten Blick zu.
    Wird oft und gerne gesagt und geschrieben! ;-)
    #17AuthorSilenia (428461) 05 Apr 08, 20:35
    Comment
    I simply don't see how a "glance" can be "stricken," if you think about what "stricken" means: "Of a person, community: afflicted with disease or sickness; overwhelmed with trouble or sorrow, and the like. Of the face: Marked with or exhibiting great trouble,"

    or:

    "of the mind, heart, soul: afflicted with frenzy, madness, grief, or the like."

    But a "glance"--an act of looking--cannot be anything except perhaps fast or slow.

    The manner of looking is a different matter, of course. One could conceivably glance in a stricken way, that is, as if stricken. But the glance itself can have no characteristic.

    The fact that journalists and even professional writers daily abuse and misuse language need not keep us from being more careful and thoughtful than they are.
    #18AuthorBob C. (254583) 05 Apr 08, 20:54
    Comment
    I must add: nevertheless, this is nothing but my preference and my approach to use of words in language. I haven't found any rule that says one cannot use "glance" in that way.

    If another writer finds it effective to say "stricken glance," he or she should certainly do so. I will wince, the great majority of humanity will not notice.
    #19AuthorBob C. (254583) 05 Apr 08, 20:58
    Comment
    Thanks Bob - this is exactly what I was trying to say. Btw, I don't think "ein verletzter Blick" works in German, either.
    #20Authorgo_Habs_go (379735) 05 Apr 08, 21:04
    Comment
    Ja, es ist, als wäre der Blick verletzt, nicht wahr? Ich wollte bloß sagen, daß der Ausdruck ("verletzter Blick") verwendet wird.

    He hadn't expected the stricken way Aidan glanced at him.

    Wie wäre es damit?
    #21AuthorSilenia (428461) 05 Apr 08, 21:33
    Comment
    But a "glance"--an act of looking--cannot be anything except perhaps fast or slow.

    @Bob: I again disagree with you, and if I had the time, I would dig up a lot more than just the following handful of examples in which "glance" is used in many other ways than the very limited usage you give it.

    http://search.barnesandnoble.com/The-Perfect-...
    If he weren't her last resort, she'd surely have dismissed him after that first smoldering glance-a glance that sent her heart racing with a desire...

    http://findstuff.com/search.php?uvx=k2EEqPEoY...
    Sultry as ever, onscreen enchantress Marlene Dietrich casts a smoldering glance over a cigarette in this classic black & white ...
     
    http://books.google.com/books?id=yQ_v5ze6-sEC...
    by Colleen McCullough - 2003 - Fiction
    ... cried Porcia, flicking Brutus an exasperated glance. "No, my love, you're wrong," Brutus insisted.

    http://books.google.com/books?id=lFeJQFV6wPwC...
    Catherine De' Medici - by Honore de Balzac - 2006 - Fiction - 312 pages
    ...by a subtle glance; then Lorenzo Ruggiero said I might be assured that no ...
    "Yes, I'll eat them; there is no poison there except by a subtle glance then ...
     
    #22Authordude05 Apr 08, 22:12
    Comment
    dude, yes, perhaps a glance may be "subtle," but that is not the same thing. Perhaps even "smouldering," (though "a glance that sent her heart racing with a desire" tells me about what I need to know about the novel).

    If the authors you cite wish to "cast a glance" or "flick a glance," they may do so. I shudder. We had a discussion last week or so about Stephen King's unfortunate misuse of "slouch."

    Such novels are not best sellers because of their masterful English prose.

    (The Balzac is in translation; by the way, I could not quickly find the passage you cite.)
    #23AuthorBob C. (254583) 05 Apr 08, 23:32
    Comment
    well, Bob, I suppose we could go on and on about this; there are plenty of phrases, such as the infamous "furtive glance," that simply can't be denied, IMHO. On the other side of the fence, there are tons of examples, like the "hurt look" one may give another person and which isn't saying anything about the face of the one giving the look, it's less a "Gesichtsausdruck" as go_Habs_go had it in #9, and more how that person looks at the other one, an expression of the eyes rather than the face I'd say.

    Anyway, I'm sure Silenia is going to go with whatever she thinks fits best.
    #24Authordude06 Apr 08, 02:13
    Comment
    Dude, I agree with almost everything you say in #24. "Furtive glance," no problem, as that means "trying to hide the glance," and is unrelated to "stricken glance."

    "Hurt look," of course, as it means "with a hurt look" on one's face or in one's eyes or "in a hurt manner."

    Anyone who likes "stricken glance" should go ahead and use it, as I say.

    As you said above in #5, "stricken glance" is dubious. "Stricken look" is slightly better, but I would think twice about using even that.

    Silenia, no one can say that "stricken glance" is wrong. It's a matter of writer's preference, and here you have two writers who disagree. That happens all the time in LEO. Unfortunately, there's no way to resolve such issues.
    #25AuthorBob C. (254583) 06 Apr 08, 03:11
     
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