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    Zöpfe

    Comment
    Was genau sind Zöpfe? Ich finde im LEO "Braid" und "Pigtail" für "Zopf". Sind aber Zöpfe nicht immer geflochtene Dinger, und "Pigtails" ungeflochten? Bzw., wenn jemand seitliche Pigtails hat, sind das im Deutschen auch Zöpfe?
    Fragen über Fragen...
    AuthorGacker02 Sep 05, 19:24
    Comment
    Für mich (deutsch) ist das folgendermaßen:
    Zopf / Zöpfe sind immer geflochten.
    Ungeflochten hinten am Kopf ist es für mich ein Pferdeschwanz, zwei seitliche wären Rattenschwänze.
    Aber ich weiß natürlich nicht, ob das jetzt nur meine persönliche Auffassung ist....
    #1Authore*02 Sep 05, 19:28
    Comment
    Da kann ich e nur zustimmen
    #2Authorvegie02 Sep 05, 19:40
    Comment
    ...dann gibt's auch noch "Ponytail" - Pferdeschwanz. Davon kann's aber immer nur einen geben, nämlich hinten, oder? Man könnte nicht sagen "She's got two ponytails" oder so, oder?
    Und was ist zopftechnisch der Unterschied zwischen "plait" und "braid"? Kommt es da auf die Dicke oder die Anzahl an?
    #3AuthorGacker02 Sep 05, 19:43
    Comment
    Ich wuerde allerdings im Englischen auch noch plait als Zopf benutzen.

    A girl with plaits- ein Maechen mit Zoepfen
    #4AuthorRichard02 Sep 05, 19:44
    Comment
    Ponytail - Pferdeschwanz
    Pigtails - Rattenschwänzen
    Braids - Zöpfe
    #5AuthorCarly -AE02 Sep 05, 22:47
    Comment
    Hi Carly
    Do we have an AE/BE difference here?
    ponytail - Pferdeschwanz
    bunches - Rattenschwänzen
    plaits / pigtails - Zöpfe

    At least we agree on ponytail :-)
    #6AuthorMarianne (BE)02 Sep 05, 23:44
    Comment
    Kleiner Hinweis:
    Der Plural von "Schwanz" ist "Schwänze" und nicht "Schwänzen".
    #7AuthorRe03 Sep 05, 09:18
    Comment
    Ich hatte als Kind Zöpfe, seitlich über den Ohren, ungeflochten, bei längerem Haar auch mal geflochten. 'Rattenschwänze' ist nicht in meinem aktiven Wortschatz.
    #8Authordagmar03 Sep 05, 11:03
    Comment
    I always thought "Rattenschwanz" was that greasy thing that hangs down the back of many an outlaw biker who has his hair short in the front. I certainly have never heard it used in my large circle of hair-fixing girl-mommy friends. Learn something new every day...
    #9AuthorSelkie03 Sep 05, 12:07
    Comment
    @ Selkie
    so what would you say in German for what Carly calls "pigtails" and I call "bunches" - unplaited hair held in a band, usually one "bunch" on either side, although there could be several.
    #10AuthorMarianne (BE)03 Sep 05, 12:25
    Comment
    I'd call them "Zöpfe"..
    #11AuthorAustrian03 Sep 05, 12:55
    Comment
    Wenn Männer sich hinten das lange Haar zusammenbinden, spricht man aber nicht von einem Pferdeschwanz, sondern von einem Zopf -- obwohl er nicht geflochten ist.
    #12AuthorSophil03 Sep 05, 13:49
    Comment
    Für geflochtene, runde, Dinger an der Seite kenne ich noch 'Affenschaukel'
    #13AuthorJohannes03 Sep 05, 13:51
    Comment
    @Marianne - I've never heard of "bunches" before, so that must be an AE/BE thing...but I can either plait or braid my hair ;-). Maybe "Rattenschwänze" is a regional/out-dated term, because I've heard it used before, but not recently. Come to think of it, my granddaughter had pigtails the other day, and my daughter DID call them "Zöpfe."
    #14AuthorCarly-AE03 Sep 05, 13:58
    Comment
    Just googled "Kinder friseur Rattenschwänze" and it got a total of FOUR hits!

    KleinerSonnenschein.de :: Thema anzeigen - Haare schneiden???... hallo, nickis haare lassen wir vorerst wachsen (sie hat schon 2 süßer rattenschwänze ). ... Frag doch mal beim Friseur nach..... ...
    forum.kleinersonnenschein.de/viewtopic.php?p=489392 - 72k - Zusätzliches Ergebnis - Im Cache - Ähnliche Seiten
    #15AuthorCarly-AE03 Sep 05, 14:02
    Comment
    'Bunches' is definitely BE only. (We've had this before, should be in the archive.)

    'Pigtails' for me means braids, which is the default AE term. 'Plaits' and the verb 'to plait' are to my ears outdated or at least strongly regional.

    I'm not sure there's a general consensus on what to call unbraided hair tied up on on each side of the head, à la Cindy Brady (a character on an old TV show for kids). My mom says 'dog ears' but I don't believe her. (-; I think I'd just go for 'two ponytails' or something. 'Pigtails' might also be used, just because there's not a better word.
    #16Authorhm -- us03 Sep 05, 20:41
    Comment
    geflochtene Zöpfe = plaits
    ungeflochtene Zöpfe (seitlich) = pigtails
    ungeflochtene Zöpfe (hinten) = pony tail

    All of the above for BE- and plaits does not sound outdated to me at all; it was definitely used when I was at school (which, admittedly is some 10 years ago now, but it's not THAT long ago...)
    #17AuthorRichard03 Sep 05, 21:01
    Comment
    @hm - I wore my hair both braided and in pigtails well into my twenties - pigtails are NOT braids. I even have an American hairstyle book entitled "Beautiful Braids," with many pictures of plaited "hair-dos." Agree that plaits is old-fashioned.

    What I don't understand, is why Webster seems to agree with you! :-) If you Google "pigtails" and check out the pictures there, with the exception of one, they all agree with my version.

    #18AuthorCarly03 Sep 05, 21:58
    Comment
    Hi Richard
    geflochtene Zöpfe = plaits, pigtails (I wore the things for years) or braids ungeflochtene Zöpfe (seitlich) = bunches (BE) or pigtails

    "The first use of the term pigtail was, of course, to refer to the tail of a pig. By the mid-1600s, however, it had taken on the added meaning of tobacco twisted into a thin string (that looked like a pig's tail.)

    From there, the term was used to describe a "plait or queue of hair hanging down from the back of the head," especially for sailors and soldiers, in the late 18th and early 19th century. The Oxford English Dictionary cites this usage as early as 1750s. Usually, it was just one pigtail. The further and later nautical use of pigtail refers to a short length of rope (1894.)

    The term was also used as a derogatory reference to Chinese in the late 1800s. The pigtail was a mark of political enslavement to the Manchu dynasty, and westerners made fun of the Chinese hair style. The pigtail was abolished in China in 1911 when the Manchu dynasty was overthrown in favor of the Republic.

    The term used for one braid was then obviously applied (in plural) to the hairstyle of two braids."
    http://www.straightdope.com/mailbag/mpigtail.html

    ungeflochtene Zöpfe (hinten) = Pferdeschwanz = ponytail

    ... Plaits does not sound outdated to me at all; it was definitely used when I was at school (which, admittedly was slightly more than 10 years ago now, but it's not THAT long ago...)
    :-)))
    #19AuthorMarianne (BE)03 Sep 05, 22:14
    Comment
    Hi again Carly
    my pigtails were definitely braided!
    #20AuthorMarianne (BE)03 Sep 05, 22:19
    Comment
    Wie nennt man denn 2 Zoepfe, die zwar ungeflochten sind, aber durch ca. 4 gummis zusammengehalten werden? die sind ja weder geflochten noch sind sie Rattenschwaenze?
    #21AuthorGacker03 Sep 05, 22:27
    Comment
    @Carly

    I agree with you ! Pigtails are not braided!!! Does Webster really say so???
    I think this time hm - us is finally wrong!!!!

    #22AuthorLillith US ohne pigtails since she was 5!!03 Sep 05, 22:28
    Comment
    Hi Marianne - No matter WHAT Webster's says, "American" pigtails are NOT braided LOL !
    #23AuthorCarly03 Sep 05, 22:32
    Comment
    @ hi Carly
    I knew this was going to be an AE/BE thng
    No matter WHAT Webster's says
    (My) British pigtails are braided!!
    LOL
    #24AuthorMarianne (BE)03 Sep 05, 22:37
    Comment
    @Lilith - yeah - Webster's really DOES - I couldn't believe it! states: "tightly braided hair - worn on both sides of head" paraphrased...
    #25AuthorCarly03 Sep 05, 22:40
    Comment
    Since somebody mentioned Cindy Brady: her pigtails were also not braided, oder?

    "shee you at the sheeshore Shindy"...
    Or was it the "sheeshide"???
    #26AuthorLillith US who has an older sister named Marcia!!03 Sep 05, 22:44
    Comment
    @Lilith - You're right - the Brady Bunch girls wore pigtails - non-braided LOL!
    #27AuthorCarly03 Sep 05, 22:51
    Comment
    @ Lilith
    Who on earth is Cindy Brady?
    And what does your sister have to do with it?
    *confused*
    #28AuthorMarianne (BE)03 Sep 05, 22:53
    Comment
    @Marianne - The Brady Bunch was a popular TV series years ago - and Cindy was one of the bunch. Mom had 3 daughters, met Dad who had 3 sons, and they all became the Brady Bunch. I think Cindy was the youngest.
    #29AuthorCarly03 Sep 05, 22:58
    Comment
    @Marianne
    And Jan was the middle one who an older sister named Marcia who would always get all the attention: "Marci, Marcia, Marcia! Always Marcia"
    #30AuthorLillith US Big Brady Bunch fan!!03 Sep 05, 23:04
    Comment
    @Marianne - If you're interested, here's a link to the one and only:

    http://www.bradyworld.com/

    NOTE: pigtails aren't braided LOL!
    #31AuthorCarly03 Sep 05, 23:06
    Comment
    @Lilith - ME TOO! And boy, was I jealous of Jan's and Marcia's LONG, STRAIGHT hair! My curly mop was totally "out."
    #32AuthorCarly03 Sep 05, 23:11
    Comment
    @Marianne
    The Brady Bunch is a major piece of Americana!
    Probably the best show to ever run on tv in this country!
    Do you really mean to tell me that y'all do not have it in England ???
    #33AuthorLillith US03 Sep 05, 23:17
    Comment
    @Carly

    Do you have an older sister too?? Please, do not tell me that her name is Marcia also!!!!
    Luckily, although I am a middle child, I do not have a little sister who talks with a lisp!! Just a little brother... Who could be a little pest, but was/is also very sweet!
    #34AuthorLillith US Nevrotic middle child03 Sep 05, 23:22
    Comment
    @Carly
    Thanks for the link
    Hey! the girls in the Brady bunch have "bunches" :-)

    @Lilith
    Obviously a huge gap in my education
    #35AuthorMarianne (BE)03 Sep 05, 23:23
    Comment
    @Lilith - Nope, I'm the oldest of 3 girls - always wanted and older brother! My sisters didn't lisp, either - the youngest was a real pest at times, but grew up to be one of my closest friends!

    @Marianne - LOL!
    #36AuthorCarly03 Sep 05, 23:28
    Comment
    If you can stand one more opinion....

    I used to wear them too - pigtails that is - unbraided.
    Braids were, well braided, either one over each ear or one in the back -> when the ponytail is braided it because a (single) braid.
    Plaits sounds old-fashioned to me too.

    @Gacker: pigtails with 4 elastics are still pigtails (as long as they aren't braided!)

    :) :) :)
    #37AuthorRES-can04 Sep 05, 01:37
    Comment
    Does anybody know how you would say a "French braid" in German?
    #38AuthorLillith US04 Sep 05, 02:08
    Comment
    französicher Zöpfe, is what my girls tell me they want. A case of Denglish perhaps? See http://www.glamour.de/glamour/4/2/content/037...

    I believe the eldest Brady sister was called Marsha rather than Marcia.

    And just to weigh in on this one, pigtails are NOT braided in the US and we used them to refer to those made with short hair. My long ones were always called ponytails by my mother at least. What a hairy topic.
    #39AuthorSelkie04 Sep 05, 08:04
    Comment
    @Marianne

    I agree that pigtails can also refer to plaited hair- I would have said that it is a matter of length, whether geflochtene Zöpfe (seitlich) are referred to as pigtails or plaits. "Bunches" I would have identified as perhaps slightly shorter & bushier than pigtails- but then again, I never had either ;)

    some pictures of "bunches" can be found here (all from UK sites):
    http://images.google.co.uk/images?q=bunches hair&hl=en&hs=KRp&lr=&cr=countryUK|countryGB&safe=off&client=firefox-a&rls=org.mozilla:en-US:official_s&sa=N&tab=wi
    http://www.handbag.com/galleries/gallery/styl...
    http://www.widemedia.com/fashionuk/fashion/ca...
    #40AuthorRichard04 Sep 05, 09:51
    Comment
    @ RES-can
    Just to show that "plaits" are by no means old-fashioned:
    "Teens
    Hair & Beauty Bible
    Pretty Plaits
    Once you know how to plait your hair, you can try loads of different styles. Try side plaits, pigtails, high plaits or lots of little ones!"
    http://www.bbc.co.uk/teens/girls/fashionandbe...
    and very recent comments from mums on the subject:
    http://chat.dailymail.co.uk/dailymail/threadn...

    I think that just about exhausts my input on this one - a fun discussion everyone, enjoy the rest of the weekend :-)
    #41AuthorMarianne (BE)04 Sep 05, 12:06
    Comment
    Eine wirklich schöne Diskussion! Hier noch meine etymologische Weisheit zur Frage nach dem Rattenschwanz: meines Wissens nach heißen so die Zöpfe kleiner Mädchen mit dünnem Haar, dem Aussehen nach einem Rattenschwanz nicht unähnlich.
    #42AuthorWieland04 Sep 05, 12:50
    Comment
    @Selkie - A German beauty parlor once styled my hair into a "französischer Zopf," so your girls know what they are talking about :-)
    #43AuthorCarly04 Sep 05, 13:09
    Comment
    @ Selkie

    Thank you! :-)
    #44AuthorLillith US04 Sep 05, 21:16
    Comment
    I found some pictures of different hairdo's.
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Illustrated_list...
    #45AuthorSandy21 Aug 10, 23:22
    Comment

    Ich muss mal diesen Thread ausbuddeln, denn ich würde allergernst wissen, wie man auf Englisch die berühmt-berüchtigten "Affenschaukeln" nennt.

    #46Author Safra (352011) 07 Oct 22, 08:17
    Comment

    Gibt es für Affenschaukeln wirklich kein englisches Wort?


    "Monkeyswings" können es doch wohl kaum sein?

    #47Author Safra (352011) 08 Oct 22, 00:15
    Comment

    Unter Double-Looped Braids finden sich Bilder im Netz, z.B. bei cosmopolitan.

    #48Author manni3 (305129)  08 Oct 22, 00:50
    Comment

    Auf Deutsch nennt man sie jedenfalls "Schlaufenzopf".

    #49AuthorRominara (1294573) 08 Oct 22, 00:53
    Comment

    Obwohl der Faden schon ein alter Zopf ist, finde ich die Affenschaukelfrage sehr interessant. Leider kenne ich keine Übersetzung dafür, denke aber, dass mannis Vorschlag zumindest den Sachverhalt gut beschreibt. Allerdings ist mir das Frisurenfoto aus der Cosmopolitan zu modern, bzw. die Frisur auf dem Foto sieht zu modern aus für das, was ich als Affenschaukel aus meiner Kindheit kenne, nämlich das, was Safra in #46 verlinkt hat.


    Schlaufenzopf habe ich dafür noch nie gehört (stammt der Begriff vielleicht von dem Bild aus dem Wikimedia-Commons-Link, Rominara?). Eigentlich müsste das Wort dann wenigstens im Plural stehen.


    Wie dem auch sei, der Begriff gefällt mir. Ich sehe bildhaft vor mir einen kleinen Affen auf einem Zopf schaukeln.

    #50Author karla13 (1364913)  08 Oct 22, 02:18
    Comment

    Der Begriff stammt aus wikipedia, was Rominara aber auf keinen Fall zugeben wird 😏

    https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zopf#Festgestec...


    Festgesteckte Flechtzöpfe

    Schlaufenzopf,

    Auch „Affenschaukel“ genannt

    #51Author manni3 (305129)  08 Oct 22, 09:39
     
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