• Betreff

    Like I said ?

    diese Frau sagt:
    auf: 00:41

    "Like I said...."
    wäre nicht "as I said..." korrekt?
    VerfasserJetix (457799) 09 Apr. 12, 15:13
    #1VerfasserWoody 1 (455616) 09 Apr. 12, 15:17
    Correct or not, "like I said" is what people say.
    #2VerfasserBill (US) (236753) 09 Apr. 12, 15:21
    So ist es - der allgemeine Sprachgebrauch ist keineswegs immer grammatikalisch korrekt ...
    #3VerfasserWoody 1 (455616) 09 Apr. 12, 15:41
    I'd qualify Bill's comment slightly: It's what a lot of people say.
    #4VerfasserSpike BE (535528) 09 Apr. 12, 15:43
    #4: It's what a lot of people say.

    And perhaps more in AE than BE?
    #5VerfasserKinkyAfro (587241) 27 Apr. 12, 20:50
    VorschlagWie ich schon sagte.
    Dies waere der uebliche Sprachgebrauch.
    #6Verfassermanus_77 (862229) 27 Apr. 12, 20:59
    @ Jetix: Meines Wissens ist like einfach( umgangssprachliches ) AE für dein as
    #7Verfasserluciesuzanne (836303) 27 Apr. 12, 21:14
    We say 'like I said' in GB! Thinking about it, I'm not sure I've heard 'as I said' at all recently....
    #8VerfasserThe Real ME (GB) (369909) 27 Apr. 12, 22:17
    We do (well, I don't normally) but, AFAIK, "as I said" is the traditional BE form and "like I said" was originally AE only and is still frowned upon by "purists" in the UK.
    #9VerfasserKinkyAfro (587241) 27 Apr. 12, 22:42
    It's a question of register.

    If I'm in a meeting, wearing a suit and tie, I would instinctively say "as I said".

    At the weekend in the pub I'm wearing casual clothes and I'm more likely to say "like I said".

    The second usage, treating like as (n.b not like) a conjunction, is traditionally regarded as substandard.
    #10Verfasserkew_l_s (855544) 27 Apr. 12, 23:17
    But the OED has citations of this usage from Spenser, Shakespeare, Darwin, Newman, and other authors they consider "writers of standing". If treating "like" like a conjunction is substandard, then either these writers were substandard, or the prejudice against this usage is misplaced.
    #11VerfasserMartin--cal (272273) 27 Apr. 12, 23:43
    Merriam-Webster's Collegiate Dictionary:

    Main Entry: like
    Function: conjunction
    2 : in the same way that : as ‹they raven down scenery like children do sweetmeats— John Keats›
    3 a : in the way or manner that ‹the violin sounds like an old masterpiece should› ‹did it like you told me›
    [In one of its (infrequent) usage notes]
    usage Like has been used as a conjunction since the 14th century. In the 14th, 15th, and 16th centuries it was used in serious literature, but not often; in the 17th and 18th centuries it grew more frequent but less literary. It became markedly more frequent in literary use again in the 19th century. By mid-century it was coming under critical fire, but not from grammarians, oddly enough, who were wrangling over whether it could be called a preposition or not. There is no doubt that, after 600 years of use, conjunctive like is firmly established. It has been used by many prestigious literary figures of the past, though perhaps not in their most elevated works; in modern use it may be found in literature, journalism, and scholarly writing. While the present objection to it is perhaps more heated than rational, someone writing in a formal prose style may well prefer to use as, as if, such as, or an entirely different construction instead.
    treating like as (n.b not like) a conjunction, is traditionally regarded as substandard.
    The question is - by whom?
    #12Verfasserwupper (354075) 28 Apr. 12, 00:43

    If you browse through The King's English you'll find that Fowler cites examples of error from many distinguished writers . Just on a quick glance now, I've found errors from writers like Scott,Trollope,Thackeray and Kipling. Their role as writers, after all, was to be creative, not to be grammatically correct all the time. Even Homer nods, as they used to say.

    Fowler classified this usage as a vulgarism. The Oxford Guide to English Usage says:" although this use of like is not uncommon in formal writing, it is often 'condemned as vulgar or slovenly' (OED)and is best avoided, except informally".

    As I said earlier, I do use it when I want to blend into an informal group.
    #13Verfasserkew_l_s (855544) 28 Apr. 12, 00:52
    It's what a lot of people say.

    But not necessarily educated people, as least not when they are being careful about what they are saying. Even here, AE. If you want to know what some people sometimes say, just do an internet search. Or, ask some contributors here who will report what they hear on the street or what the faithful descriptionists do not condemn. But why are you here is that is all you are looking for?

    It's not wrong in the sense that only a foreigner would say it, but you knew that.
    #14VerfasserJurist (US) (804041) 28 Apr. 12, 02:51
    Like as a conjunction is a colloquialism, frequently used in casual speech.

    It should probably be avoided by learners of English, in formal English, and in circumstances where you need to show your willingness to conform to social norms at the expense of subtle linguistic differentiation.

    As Merriam-Webster's Dictionary of English Usage puts it: ". . . although it occurs in many sources, [like as a conjunction] is almost always used where a construction that is primarily a speech form may be used appropriately. [. . .] The belief that like is a preposition but not a conjunction has entered the folklore of usage. Handbooks, schoolbooks, newspaper pundits, and well-meaning friends for generations to come will tell you about it. Be prepared."

    The other point is that "like I said" is a colloquial idiom, which may have a different flavour from "as I said", in the same way that "It ain't right" is different from "This is not ethical".
    #15VerfasserMikeE (236602) 28 Apr. 12, 11:48
    It seems to me that there is a consensus in this thread and that there is not a lot to add. Nevertheless, readers may find the opinion of the Chicago Manual of Style (written by Garner) interesting:

    "5.181 Use and misuse of 'like'

    "Like is probably the least understood preposition. Its traditional function is adjectival, not adverbial, so that like is governed by a noun or a noun phrase (teens often see themselves as star-crossed lovers like Romeo and Juliet). As a preposition, like is followed by a noun or pronoun in the objective case (the person in that old portrait looks like me).

    "Increasingly (but loosely) today in ordinary speech, like displaces as or as if as a conjunction to connect clauses. For example, in it happened just like I said it would happen, like should read as; and in you’re looking around like you’ve misplaced something, like should read as if. Because as and as if are conjunctions, they are followed by nouns in the nominative case (Do you work too hard, as I do?).

    "Although like as a conjunction has been considered nonstandard since the seventeenth century, today it is common in dialectal and colloquial usage (he ran like he was really scared). Consider context and tone when deciding whether to impose standard English, as in the examples above."

    (From the 16th edition, online.)
    #16VerfasserBob C. (254583) 29 Apr. 12, 04:30
    By the way, there is another situation in which like is not always used correctly: In cases like this, I would advise caution. Shouldn't it be such as?

    It seems to me that it depends on what you mean to say. If you mean in cases that are similar to this one, then like; if you mean in this case, for example, make it such as.

    In practice, especially in colloquial speech, this distinction seems to be overlooked, and like is used most commonly.
    #17VerfasserBob C. (254583) 29 Apr. 12, 14:37
    Not really.
    #18VerfasserMikeE (236602) 29 Apr. 12, 17:54
  • Pinyin
  • Tastatur
  • Sonderzeichen
  • Lautschrift
:-) automatisch zu 🙂 umgewandelt