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    Reibebaum [fig.]

    Sources

    Wie im folgenden Beispiel: "Der Autor Peter Turrini ist einer meiner langjährigen literarischen Begleiter, seit meiner Teenagerzeit als Pflichtlektüre in der Oberstufe der Schule, Reibebaum und Grundlage für hitzige Diskussionen in der Klasse." (Ich brauche es für einen anderen Text, aber in dieser Bedeutung.) Jemand, an dem man sich "reiben" kann.

    Comment

    Keine Einträge bei Leo, Langenscheidt, Pons, nicht einmal dict.cc. Mir fallen nur Umschreibungen ein (sounding board, intellectual sparring partner, counterpoint u.ä.), aber keine direkte Übersetzung. Gibt es die überhaupt? Danke für Tipps!

    Author Ferenczi (237228) 21 Aug 18, 14:48
    Comment

    rubbing tree


    a literal translation should work, I'd think, or else maybe "scratching post."

    #1Author dude (253248) 21 Aug 18, 15:26
    Comment

    Is a rubbing tree what a bear uses? (Like Balou in the Jungle Book.) Then this might work if it can be used also figuratively.

    Scratching post -- isn't that the Kratzbaum (for cats)?

    #2Author Ferenczi (237228) 21 Aug 18, 15:41
    SuggestionAww
    Comment

    Many animals use rubbing trees. I would assume bears do too. But the Reibebaum is used here as a metaphor for something that helps with "scratching that itch," or satisfying a need, so different metaphors might be applicable, imo.

    #3Author dude (253248) 21 Aug 18, 15:46
    Comment

    Ich seh das nicht unbedingt als Ausdruck für etwas, das ein Bedürfnis befriedigt, sondern etwas, über das oder mit dem man streitet - eben "sich daran reibt". Vielleicht irgendwas mit "contention", wobei "bone of c." nicht direkt passt. Aber so in der Richtung.

    #4Author B.L.Z. Bubb (601295) 21 Aug 18, 15:56
    Comment

    a controversial issue ?

    #5Author no me bré (700807) 21 Aug 18, 17:15
    Comment

    Aus dem OP: Der Autor ist ... Reibebaum und Grundlage für hitzige Diskussionen.


    Ein Autor kann (in diesem Kontext) mMn. nicht eine "controversial issue" sein.

    #6Author dude (253248) 21 Aug 18, 17:49
    Comment

    Da hat der dude mal wieder recht; daher schrieb ich ja extra, dass "bone of contention" nicht wirklich passt ;-)

    #7Author B.L.Z. Bubb (601295) 21 Aug 18, 17:52
    Comment

    Es kann ja sein, dass ich das Konzept des metaphorischen Reibebaums nicht richtig verstehe, aber für mich ist es einfach etwas, woran man sich den Rücken kratzt, wenn's einen juckt (auch natürlich nur im metaphorischen Sinn). :-) Wie man das genau interpretieren will, kann natürlich vom jeweiligen Kontext (der uns hier allerdings zu fehlen scheint) abhängen.

    #8Author dude (253248) 21 Aug 18, 17:59
    Comment
    But is 'rubbing tree' really a very recognizable collocation? Just grammatically, it could sound like a tree that rubs (against something else) or that is used for rubbing (against something else).

    My impression is that many people are aware that animals rub up against trees or posts, or use them to scratch, but that we don't have a special word for those even in the literal sense, much less in the figurative sense. Maybe partly because there's nothing unique about a particular tree or post to cause an animal to choose it, apart from the fact that maybe some other animal has already rubbed against it or scratched it and left scent there.

    I would also be cautious about expecting English speakers to perceive any implied connection between rubbing, which is usually used in the literal sense, and friction, which is the word in English that more typically can carry the figurative sense of conflict. In Germany both have the same etymological root, but in English there's simply no connection, they're different words.

    So I would actually be inclined not to even attempt to translate too literally, but to substitute some other phrase, like, indeed, 'source of friction,' 'bone of contention,' etc. -- or indeed, the perfectly good other ideas in the original post.

    In fact, I don't quite see why the German needs two words in the first place, when it already has 'Grundlage für hitzige Diskussionen,' which already covers the point and which could simply be translated. The idea of an author or an author's works as a kind of scratching post just doesn't work that well for me in the first place, so I wouldn't feel that bad about just quietly losing it.
    #9Author hm -- us (236141) 21 Aug 18, 19:11
    Comment

    friction is the word in English that more typically can carry the figurative sense of conflict

    Precisely so.


    I would actually be inclined to substitute some other phrase, like, indeed, 'source of friction,' 'bone of contention,

    Can 'source of friction' or 'bone of contention' be used to refer to a human being as in the OP?


    Siehe auch: Reibungsfläche bieten - to be a potential ca...


    I don't quite see why the German needs two words in the first place

    This is done for stylistic reasons. You have similar examples in English: 'I'm willing to tell you. I'm wanting to tell you. I'm waiting to tell you.' (George Bernard Shaw); 'If we do not succeed, we run the risk of failure.' (Dan Quayle), 'Our nation must come together to unite.' (George W. Bush)

    #10AuthorRodos (930149) 21 Aug 18, 20:47
    Comment

    @#9: But is 'rubbing tree' really a very recognizable collocation? 


    It seems to be recognizable to other people:

    https://www.gardeningknowhow.com/plant-proble...

    Deer Rubbing Tree Bark: Protecting Trees From Deer Rubs


    https://www.pinterest.com/pin/567383253039102814/

    A rutting buck whitetail deer polishes his antlers on a rubbing tree.


    etc., etc. Having said that, I'd also say that "Reibebaum" isn't exactly part of my active vocabulary, and looking it up, I find all sorts of different connotations for it, so my guess is that it's not very common in German, either, for a literal tree or as a figure of speech.

    #11Author dude (253248) 21 Aug 18, 22:46
    Comment

    Vielen Dank für die Antworten! Ich hätte klarer machen sollen, dass es nicht um eine Übersetzung eines bereits existierenden Textes geht, sondern um etwas, das ich selber schreibe und wo ich im Deutschen den Ausdruck "Reibebaum" benutzen würde. Hier also die Passage, wie ich sie bis jetzt habe, mit der Bitte um eventuelle (Englisch-)Korrekturen:

    "Jung was never one to set his sights low. I think it is characteristic that he chose such an eminent and controversial figure like Freud, first as a teacher and role model, then ever more as an intellectual (and emotional) sparring partner, and finally as a mighty opponent and rival."

    PS. Special thanks to hm -- us (# 9). I've learned and profited a lot from your contributions over time.

    #12Author Ferenczi (237228) 22 Aug 18, 11:54
    Comment

    PS. Die ersten vier Hits, wenn ich "Reibebaum" google (der Algorithmus mag bei anderen andere Hits vorreihen):


    Eltern sind Reibebaum der Kinder - meinefamilie.at

    https://www.meinefamilie.at/erziehung/elterns...

    23.06.2017 - Eltern sind Reibebaum, das ist natürlich. Es ist ihr Privileg, die schönen und die schwierigen Seiten der Kindheit zu erfahren.

    Reibebaum | Conclusio

    https://www.conclusio.at/reibebaum/

    30.08.2016 - Wenn du Bedeutung erlangen willst greif jemanden von Bedeutung an. Und wähle den Zeitpunkt gut. Anmerkungen zur politischen ...

    24-Stunden-Betreuung: Vom „Schmuddelkind“ zum „Reibebaum“

    https://www.hilfswerk.at/.../24-stunden-betre....

    19.04.2017 - „Dass die 24-Stunden-Betreuung in Österreich bei politischen Parteien und Sozialpartnern jüngst zum allseits beliebten Reibebaum geworden ...

    Landtagswahl: Der Bund als Reibebaum für Oberösterreich ...

    https://diepresse.com/.../Landtagswahl_Der-Bu...

    Landeschef Pühringer will vor der Wahl sein Profil mit Kritik am Bund schärfen.

    #13Author Ferenczi (237228) 22 Aug 18, 12:28
    Comment

    Could 'sounding board' fit the bill?


    e.g.

    #14Authorpumpkin_3 (765445) 22 Aug 18, 13:06
    Comment

    # 14: This was one of my original suggestions; see OT and # 9.

    #15Author Ferenczi (237228) 24 Aug 18, 14:58
    Comment
    I like 'sparring partner,' and would just change one word: '... such an eminent and controversial figure as Freud.'

    Thank you for the additional examples. In the end, it might just be an interesting cultural difference that German sees a source of friction or conflict as something so positive and healthy that it has this particular image for it.
    #16Author hm -- us (236141) 24 Aug 18, 19:07
    Comment

    # 16: "as" it is; thanks!

    #17Author Ferenczi (237228) 28 Aug 18, 11:52
     
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