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  • Subject

    Strichart

    [mus.]
    Sources

    Oberbegriff für Abstrich, Aufstrich etc. beim Spiel von Streichinstrumenten.


    Wikipedia:

    https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stricharten

    Comment

    Habe gerade erstaunt festgestellt, dass dieses Wort bislang weder im Wörterbuch noch in der Forumssuche zu finden ist. Abstrich (down-bow) und Aufstrich (up-bow) gibt's, aber der Oberbegriff fehlt. Ob es dafür wohl ein englisches Pendant gibt?


    Der Interwiki-Link führt etwas unbeholfen weiter zu "violin technique", was natürlich keine exakte Entsprechung ist.


    Der Duden hat eine völlig absurde Lösung: Er kennt das Wort offensichtlich, denn es kommt im Artikel Konzertmeister vor, aber einen eigenen Eintrag dafür gibt es nicht.

    AuthorCalifornia81 (642214)  05 Jul 19, 20:47
    Ergebnisse aus dem Wörterbuch
    bowing [MUS.]die Strichart
    Ergebnisse aus dem Forum
    Sources

    Bow direction refers to the motion of a violinist’s arm when playing the instrument. There are two bow directions: down bows and up bows.

    https://www.masterclass.com/articles/violin-1...


    In this bow stroke, the bow is thrown on the string, and then bounces for several notes in the same bow direction. The height and speed of the bounce are ...

    https://www.celloonline.com/bowstrokes.htm


    In this article I explain 24 different bowing techniques for you to play with.

    https://violinlounge.com/article/24-violin-bo...

    Comment

    If it really only boils down to up and down, then "bow direction"; if more is involved, "bow stroke." And then, more general still, "bowing techniques."

    #1AuthorBion (1092007)  05 Jul 19, 21:48
    Comment

    Danke!


    "Bowing techniques" wäre wohl eher "Bogentechnik" im Deutschen; das würde ich ausschließen.


    Bleiben also "bow direction" oder "bow stroke". Welches davon ließe sich wohl eher wie "Strichart" verwenden? Ich versuche mal ein paar realitätsnahe Beispielsätze:


    Der Konzertmeister legt die Stricharten fest.

    "Welche Strichart nimmst du an der Stelle, ab oder auf?"

    Spiccato ist eine schwierige Strichart, die Geigenschüler lange üben müssen.

    #2AuthorCalifornia81 (642214) 05 Jul 19, 23:04
    Sources
    Comment

    In the context you give, I would just say bowing(s), meaning the markings for upbow or downbow (which I would write as closed compounds, by the way, but there's probably some variation), so that all the bows in the section move in unison.

    The concertmaster / section leader determines the bowing / marks the bowings.

    Describing that as the direction of the bow might make it clearer to non-musicians, but I don't think most musicians would use that word.

    There are other bowings that may be determined by the conductor, or already marked in the music, like spiccato, martelé, col legno ... (see link above). Those could also be called bowing techniques, as many of them involve hitting the string in more percussive ways than the default.

    Bowing technique (with no plural) is also just the general term for holding and moving the bow correctly, perpendicular to and making good contact with the strings -- a skill that takes children a while to master, and that actors who try to fake playing a string instrument often never manage.

    Thanks for the question -- it's often hard to guess specific musical terms like this in the opposite language. (-:
    #3Authorhm -- us (236141) 06 Jul 19, 00:25
    Comment

    Bowing(s)! *HandvordenKopfschlag*

    Das ist es, ja natürlich! (Habe ich vor vielen Jahren auch mal gewusst...)


    Sollten wir versuchen, daraus einen Neueintrag zu basteln?

    #4AuthorCalifornia81 (642214)  06 Jul 19, 00:34
    Comment
    'Wir'? (-;

    I'm about to go out to supper, but I could look at it later, or on the weekend.

    Since you know the German better, maybe you could start with some suggested translation pairs, and then I could help find examples if needed. Or some of the other string players might come along.

    I was still thinking about your other example sentence

    "Welche Strichart nimmst du an der Stelle, ab oder auf?"

    and I don't think we would necessarily use a noun there, although you could. If my dim memory is correct, we would more often use 'to bow (sth.)' as a transitive verb, especially if just asking mainly about upbow and downbow. (Which often boils down to just asking about the start of the phrase.)

    How do you bow this phrase / line?
    At (measure / section) 22, do you start with an upbow or a downbow?
    What bowing(s) would you use in that passage / section?

    #5Authorhm -- us (236141) 06 Jul 19, 01:04
    Comment

    #5 'Wir'? (-;


    Na, alleine kann ich das nicht. Ich kann wohl den Thread starten, aber ich brauche schon moralische Unterstützung. :-)

    Und die Frage bezog sich vor allem auf die Tendenz - ob es sich lohnt, so einen Thread zu starten.


    Aber heute sowieso nicht mehr...

    #6AuthorCalifornia81 (642214)  06 Jul 19, 01:09
    Sources

    ... but there are many other variables that make spiccato a difficult bow stroke to control from a technical-mechanical point of view. The bouncing speed (tempo), ...

    [link to site blocked by virus scanner]

    Comment

    For your first two examples in #2, hm -- us is surely right, "bowing," and verbal constructions with "to bow." She doesn't tackle your third example. It's more of a teacher/manual (rather than a player) utterance and might be one where "bow stroke" would be used.

    #7AuthorBion (1092007) 06 Jul 19, 08:23
    Comment

    Du hast Recht, beim dritten Beispiel könnte tatsächlich auch "bowing technique" passen.


    Allerdings als so ganz allgemeine Übersetzung ist "bowing" sicher genau das Treffende.



    Edit: Ich habe jetzt mal einen Neueintrag gewagt und bitte um die o.g. moralische und praktische Unterstützung! :-)

    related discussion: bowing - Strichart

    #8AuthorCalifornia81 (642214)  06 Jul 19, 10:16
    Comment

    #8 paragraphs 1, 2

    Yes and yes. And Strich or Bogenstrich for "bow stroke," Strichrichtung or Bogenstrichrichtung for "bow direction."

    #9AuthorBion (1092007)  06 Jul 19, 10:47
    Comment


    Ich hab noch ein bisschen was dazu gefunden ... darunter diese - etwas längere - Auflistung verschiedener Stricharten ... mit teils deutschen, teils französischen, teils italienischen Bezeichnungen und dazu englischen Erläuterungen* :


    https://www.vsl.co.at/community/posts/t16746-...

    The following is a listing of all basic orchestra bowing techniques. I have difficulties to chose the right patches while composing.

    My question:

    What are the string section patches, respectively which patch is recommended to apply to perform the following listed orchestra string bowing technics?

    On-String-Technic - Stricharten mit liegendem Bogen ...

     ... Off-String-Technic - Stricharten mit fliegendem Bogen ...



    *das hatte nicht in den Neueintragsvorschlag gepasst ... ist aber ein schönes Fundstück zum Thema ...

    #10Authorno me bré (700807) 06 Jul 19, 11:24
    Comment

    #10

    The misuse of "technic" there and other problems in the E. (e.g., the use of "respectively," "a listing," "the following listed") betray non-nEs authorship, so it's unfortunately (at least as far as the E. is concerned) doch kein so "schönes Fundstück," I'm afraid. ;-(

    #11AuthorBion (1092007)  06 Jul 19, 14:27
    Comment

    #11 Derjenige schreibt ja selbst am Schluss: "My english description of the bowing technic can’t be too good, simply because I do not know all the musical terminology in this language. The german is short, but should be 100% accurate."

    Also als "Fundstück" für die deutsche Seite und als Übersicht o.k., aber nicht für die englische Seite.


    #10f Was meint der Verfasser dieses Textes wohl mit "patches"? Ist das ein musikalischer Fachausdruck oder nur eine Fehlübersetzung von irgendetwas?

    #12AuthorCalifornia81 (642214) 07 Jul 19, 08:18
    Comment

    #10f Was meint der Verfasser dieses Textes wohl mit "patches"?

    I was wondering that myself. After reading quite a bit from the link (especially the back-and-forth later on) it seems to be a site (and forum) about using samples for digital music creation. I have a little bit of experience with this from using Cubase long ago. "Patches" are used to digitally process a music signal using software to achieve a desired effect. The question is about which "patches" should be used to best simulate a certain bowing technique. In other words, it doesn't have anything to do with actual violin playing. ;-) At least that's how I understand it.

    #13Authorwupper (354075)  07 Jul 19, 11:51
    Comment

    Ah! Dann ist es natürlich kein Wunder, dass ich es nicht einordnen konnte. Von digitaler Musikkreation habe ich null Ahnung.

    #14AuthorCalifornia81 (642214) 07 Jul 19, 13:59
     
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