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    English missing

    in the dock (Anklagebank) oder doch on the dock?


    in the dock (Anklagebank) oder doch on the dock?


    Sie sitzt auf der Anklagebank.


    Ich nehme an, es heißt

    She's in the dock.

    und bitte um Bestätigung. Bei Otis Redding heißt es zwar "Sitting on the dock of the bay", aber da geht es wohl nicht um die Anklagebank, sondern um einen Steg.

    Weitere Frage: Im Deutschen sitzt man ja auf der Anklagebank, geht das auf Englisch auch? Also "She sits in the dock."?

    (Den Ohrwurm gibt es von mir als Gratiszugabe.)

    Author harambee (91833) 26 Jan 23, 10:38

    ... so I was sent to sit by him in the dock ...


    ohne Kommentar

    #1Author buttermaker (826321) 26 Jan 23, 10:52

    Danke sehr! Dass the dock im britischen Rechtssystem tatsächlich ein geschlossener Kasten ist, für den nur die Präposition "in" passt, war mir nicht klar. Sind "dock" für diesen Kasten und "dock" für den Steg nur zufällig gleiche Wörter oder haben sie trotz des deutlichen Unterschiedes den gleichen Ursprung? Das ist natürlich keine wichtige Frage, aber wenn es jemand weiß ...

    #2Author harambee (91833)  26 Jan 23, 11:21

    I'd never thought about it before.

    They're listed separately in OED. Here are the relevant OED etymology notes:


    dock: The enclosure in a criminal court in which the prisoner is placed at his trial: it was formerly filled with the prisoners whose trial was put down for the day.

    Etymology: The same word as Flemish dok rabbit-hutch, fowl-pen, cage; ‘Docke = keuie, renne,’ i.e. cage, fowl-pen, fowl-run (Kilian). In English probably at first a word of rogues' cant.

    Used by Warner and Ben Jonson 1586–1610; but an unknown word to Jonson's editors, Whalley 1756, Gifford 1816. Absent from the 18th cent. dictionaries, and from Todd, Webster 1828, Richardson; and after 1610, known to us only in bail-dock n., till the 19th cent., in which it has become familiar, largely through the writings of Dickens.


    dock: for ships

    Etymology: Found early in 16th cent., also in 16th cent. Dutch docke, modern Dutch dok. From Dutch and English it has passed into other languages, Danish docke, Swedish docka, modern German dock, docke, modern French dock, in 1679 doque. Ulterior origin uncertain. It has been variously compared with rare Icelandic dökk, dökð pit, pool, Norwegian dokk hollow, low ground, medieval Latin doga ditch, canal (Du Cange), Greek δοχή receptacle. See Skeat, E. Müller; also Grimm, and Diez s.v. Doga.


    #3AuthorBion (1092007) 26 Jan 23, 11:34

    Danke sehr, Bion! Also wohl doch eher zufällige Namensgleichheit?!

    #4Author harambee (91833) 26 Jan 23, 11:37


    #5AuthorBion (1092007) 26 Jan 23, 11:38

    FWIW, hier werden gleich drei gleichlautende Substantive erwähnt (im Link auch Verben)

     dock (n.1)

    "ship's berth, any structure in or upon which a ship may be held for loading, repairing, etc.," late 15c., dokke, from Middle Dutch or Middle Low German docke, which is perhaps ultimately (via Late Latin *ductia "aqueduct") from Latin ducere "to lead" (from PIE root *deuk- "to lead"); or possibly from a Scandinavian word for "low ground" (compare Norwegian dokk "hollow, low ground"). The original sense was perhaps "furrow a grounded vessel makes in a mud bank."

    Related entries & more

    ... dock (n.2)

    "where accused stands in court," 1580s, probably originally rogue's slang, from Flemish dok "pen or cage for animals," which is of unknown origin.

    Related entries & more

     ... dock (n.3)

    name for various tall, coarse weeds or herbs, Old English docce, from Proto-Germanic *dokkon (source also of Middle Dutch docke-, German Docken-, Old Danish dokka), akin to Middle High German tocke "bundle, tuft," and ultimately to the noun source of dock (v.1).

    Related entries & more ...

    #6Author no me bré (700807) 26 Jan 23, 11:41

    OT, aber mit dem OP abgestimmt:

    Der in #1 verlinkte Artikel wurde von Oliver, einem "criminal pupil", geschrieben. Ganz offensichtlich ist Oliver kein krimineller Schüler. Ist "criminal pupil" ein Fachbegriff unter Juristen oder allgemeine Standarsprache?

    #7Author harambee (91833) 26 Jan 23, 14:43


    relating to crime or to the prosecution of suspects in a crime

    criminal statistics

    brought criminal action

    the criminal justice system

    Criminal Definition & Meaning - Merriam-Webster


    Dass "criminal" nicht nur "kriminell", sondern auch "Kriminal-", "Straf-" heißt, ist Standard.

    #8AuthorRominara (1294573) 26 Jan 23, 14:57

    09.02.2021 — So you can imagine the look on one Criminal law pupil's face when I told him about my 1/3rd principle. One third for taxes (because people ...

    28.11.2016 — Samuel Linehan, a criminal law pupil, has won £4000 in the Bar Council's Law Reform essay competition with his submission, “Putting the ...

    How much do commercial, family and criminal pupil barristers earn? · 12-month pupillage award figures from targetjobs Law advertisers · How much do qualified ...


    I’d never come across it. But it seems to be in use as a short form of “criminal law pupil” derived from the law concept of “pupillage”: “Law. A (now compulsory) period of apprenticeship with a member of the Bar, intended to give experience of the actual practice of the law and which, upon completion, qualifies a barrister to practise independently.” [OED] There are also, e.g., commercial and family pupils doing their apprenticeship in those areas of law.

    #9AuthorBion (1092007) 26 Jan 23, 15:04

    #8 More relevantly, criminal law is a branch of the law -- others include commercial law, employment law, human rights law, family law, etc. This person has chosen to train in criminal law.

    Edit: Had not yet seen #9. Good, I don't now need to explain what a pupil is.

    #10AuthorHecuba - UK (250280)  26 Jan 23, 15:04

    A warm welcome to our Family Law Pupil Katy Fellows who starts her journey in pupillage with us today KCH Garden Square. Welcome Katy!

    12.05.2020 — Family pupil Liberty Crawford is on her feet. We are delighted to announce that Liberty has successfully completed her specialist family ...


    ... supporting #10. I'd wanted to edit #9 to add the above.

    #11AuthorBion (1092007)  26 Jan 23, 15:07

    Danke für die Erläuterungen, insbesondere auch zum Wort pupillage.

    Bei "criminal law pupil" hätte ich vermutlich nicht gestutzt, aber "criminal pupil" finde ich weiterhin amüsant.

    #12Author harambee (91833) 26 Jan 23, 15:16

    Same here. It put me in mind of that German lady who liked to go to bed with a criminal Roman.

    #13AuthorBion (1092007) 26 Jan 23, 15:22

    (Correction to #10, with reference to #8: rather than "more relevantly", I should have written "more particularly".)

    #14AuthorHecuba - UK (250280) 26 Jan 23, 15:41

    OT re. No. 13: So that guy Roman is a criminal and needs a criminal lawyer?

    (And if the criminal lawyer cheats him, he is a criminal criminal lawyer.)

    #15Author mbshu (874725) 26 Jan 23, 17:37

    Right. The moral of this (tragic) tale, that you shouldn't go to bed with true false friends, cannot be repeated often enough. Had she gone to bed with a criminal pupil, everything would have been different.

    #16AuthorBion (1092007) 26 Jan 23, 19:32
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