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  • Subject

    Halbstarke(r)

    Context/ examples
    ..
    Comment

    LEO bietet dafür "beatnik" an. Die anderen 2 Vorschläge (teenager, yob) sind mir ein bisserl zu trocken.

    Und 'young rebels' ist mir irgendwie zu fad und zu wenig griffig, auch wenn's dem Erklärungszweck sicher dienlich ist.

    Und hoodlum = "a young ruffian" ist wohl eher britisch und tendiert auch schon mehr zum Strolch und Ganoven als zum bloßen Halbstarken.

    Ich bin mir aber sicher, dafür schon mal einen umgangssprachlicheren Ausdruck gehört/gelesen zu haben. Wär schön, wenn ich das nicht nur geträumt hätte und sich einer von euch daran erinnert.

    AuthorJutta02 Jun 03, 11:39
    Ergebnisse aus dem Wörterbuch
    teenagerder Halbstarke | die Halbstarke  pl.: die Halbstarken
    yob (Brit.) [sl.]der Halbstarke | die Halbstarke  pl.: die Halbstarken
    to trill  | trilled, trilled | [LING.]das R rollen
    to call so. collect (Amer.)jmdn. per R-Gespräch anrufen
    R-rated  adj. (Amer.)frei ab 17
    generally  adv.in der Regel [abbr.: i. d. R.]
    generally accepted codes of practiceallgemein anerkannte Regeln der Technik pl. [abbr.: a. a. R. d. T.]
    SuggestionTeddyboy
    #1Authorminjong02 Jun 03, 11:48
    Suggestionpunk
    Comment
    Might be OK for American English, though ambiguous in British English due to punk rock movement
    #2AuthorDavid 02 Jun 03, 11:59
    Suggestionadolescent
    Comment
    halbstark im sinne von halbwuechsig
    #3Authorcccs02 Jun 03, 11:59
    Suggestionbeatnik / yob (depending on context)
    Sources
    Context/ examples
    Rock-'n'-Roll-Fans außer Rand und Band - Jugendliche randalieren Ende der 60er Jahre nach Konzerten des US-Sängers Bill Haley. Sie zertrümmern Stühle, zerschlagen Flaschen, Polizeieinsätze sind die Regel. Der Film "Die Halbstarken" mit Karin Baal und Horst Buchholz (1956) - Beginn der Halbstarken-Bewegung.
    Comment
    Die Frage ist, ob hier nach der Übersetzung für den "Halbstarken" i.S.v. Anhängern der Bewegung (s. Link) oder nach einer Übersetzung für überhebliche, freche usw. junge Leute.
    #4Authorbhe02 Jun 03, 12:06
    Comment
    Young rowdy/rowdies.
    Rowdy young boys.

    Maybe even "half-pint/half-pints"? (AE) A half-pint could be too young for your sentence, but it depends on the context, and you didn't give any. :)
    #5AuthorLizzie02 Jun 03, 12:07
    Comment
    Lizzie
    es war auch nicht in einem direkten Zusammenhang gefallen. Wir hatten letztes Mal nur versucht, das Wort einem Englisch-Lehrer zu erklären, der mühsam versucht hat, es anhand der einzelnen Silben wörtlich zu übersetzen. Was natürlich besch... klingt.

    bhe
    "Übersetzung für überhebliche, freche usw. junge Leute gesucht" - ganz genau DAS war damit (ganz generell) gemeint.

    An dieser Stelle aber erstmal schon vielen Dank für die bisherigen zahlreichen + prompten Antworten !

    #6AuthorJutta02 Jun 03, 12:43
    Suggestionthug, goon, hooligan, ruffian, bully
    #7Authorlarrikin02 Jun 03, 13:01
    Comment
    larrikin: I don't think your terms apply. They are far to negative and indicate people who are acting violently. "Halbstarke" may also act violently, but it rather indicates a certain arrogant, falsely self-assured outlook on life and other people. They think they can do anything, because they are to young to recognize their limitations. And they very well may become dangerous to themselves and other because of that (besides being a pain in the neck).

    James Dean was the icon of "Halbstark" in his time.

    So, native speakers to the front: How would you term them?
    #8AuthorCJ02 Jun 03, 13:51
    SuggestionRebel
    Comment
    If you want to describe James Dean then it has to be rebel as that was the name of one of his most famous films "Rebel without a cause".

    The only other term I can think of which is not too negative is "cocky teenager/adoloscent.
    #9AuthorRachel02 Jun 03, 14:09
    Comment
    or even adolescent!!
    #10AuthorRachel02 Jun 03, 14:16
    Comment
    Rachel:Basicly you are right. But isn't there are less scientific-sounding word for that?
    How would you term those guys from "Easy rider"?
    #11AuthorCJ02 Jun 03, 14:22
    Comment
    CJ: I beg to differ. Rachel's suggestion of "cocky teenagers/adolescents" is not scientific-sounding in the least. It's just normal language. And depending on how cocky they are, "punks", as suggested by David, hits the nail on the head, too (in AE).
    #12AuthorLizzie02 Jun 03, 14:34
    Comment
    A few suggestions (I like "young turks", because it's no good hiding behind lists; a person's gotta choose)

    tearaways
    angry young men
    young turks
    rumble fish (stolen from a OK film; I love the words though: rumble fish, mmm.)
    jail bait (stolen from a much better film, but what the film was called, anyone? He (Farley Granger) is young and gets caught up with bank robbers, one of whom has only one eye, and is annoyed that newspaper reports always refer to thjis fact; she (Name?) is beautiful and the daughter of a con (?), and her mother (?) keeps calling him "jail bait". )
    Outsiders (from another film, not really that good, but this isn't a film discussion, so I'll stop)

    If anyone suggests "brat pack", they should be banned from internet use. What a horrible phrase.

    And, as regards "punks", I would say you would have to say "young punks", otherwise it does sound like you're talking about Sex Pistols etc. fans, BUT "young punks" is something only old fogeys say.

    And, they are Teddyboys, in the film, but rowdy young men are still called "Halbstarke" in Germany, although they bear no resemblance to those beautiful moped-riding gods of yesteryear.


    But "Die Halbstarken"
    And what a great film. Get out there and see it.
    When the girl stands there and says "Er ist fertig". COOOL.

    #13Authorbarty02 Jun 03, 15:40
    Comment
    WOW ! Nicht nur ein halb-, sondern ein ganz starkes Feedback! Also aus euren enzyklopädischen Vorschlägen gefallen mir die am besten:

    cocky teenager / rumble fish / young punks / young turks.

    CJ -
    deine Beschreibung finde ich mit Abstand am treffendsten für den von mir gesuchten Begriff, denn beim Versuch der Übersetzung hatten wir weniger die Kanditaten mit eindeutig krimineller Neigung im Visier, bei denen einem das Lachen ganz schnell vergeht, sondern eher die, deren Betrachtung den weisen Alten einen Anflug von nachsichtigem (um die Kurzlebigkeit dieses Ausnahmezustands wissenden) Schmunzeln entlockt.

    (youngsters with) 'a certain arrogant, falsely self-assured outlook on life and other people. They think they can do anything, because they are to(o) young to recognize their limitations. And they very well may become dangerous to themselves and other(s) because of that (besides being a pain in the neck).'

    Ich kann mir jetzt sogar behelfen allein mit 'pain in the neck', denn das trifft's ja lebensnah und voll auf den Punkt: young (predominantly male) adolescents/youngsters during puberty who turn out to be a pain in the neck.

    Und wenn das alles nichts geholfen hätte (was ja nunmehr unrealistisch ist), dann hätten sowohl die Nennung der Ikone James Dean und der Rolle von Horst Buchholz im wörtlich besetzten Film sicher den letzten Zweifel ausgeräumt.

    Ich bin restlos zufrieden. Merci!
    #14AuthorJutta02 Jun 03, 19:38
    Suggestionhalve pipe
    Comment
    Halbstarker - halve pipe
    Mehr als Verniedlichung gebraucht für kleine Kinder. Auch in der Richtung Dreikäsehoch zu verstehen.
    #15Authorsib03 Jun 03, 13:32
    Comment
    sib: halve pipe??? I believe you're thinking of the word "half-pint", which is used with kids, like "Dreikäsehoch".

    There was a TV show years back in the States where the main child actress was constantly referred to as half-pint by her TV father, but if I named it, that might reveal my awful taste in so-called TV entertainment at the time. :)))
    #16AuthorLizzie03 Jun 03, 13:51
    Comment
    Lizzie: She was called "Dreikäsehoch" in German. ;-))
    #17AuthorNite Mite03 Jun 03, 21:42
    Comment
    Nite Mite: :O You found me out! I knew she was called that in German, because my dubious taste in U.S. TV shows followed me to Germany. Some bad habits you just can't shake.
    #18AuthorLizzie03 Jun 03, 22:06
    Comment
    Lizzie: It's not a bad habit, it's educational. ;-)) How else would you learn such important words like "Dreikäsehoch" and "half-pint"? ;-))

    BTW, I would not translate "Halbstarker" with "half-pint". It might be this ominous TV-show, but when hearing half-pint I imagine a child and not a teenager...
    #19AuthorNite Mite03 Jun 03, 22:37
    SuggestionHoodlum/hood?
    Comment
    Kind of an older term (perhaps revealing my age) but "hoodlum" might work. Otherwise I'd vote for punks.

    Barty, I could be wrong, but I've always understood "jailbait" to refer to the girl, not to a guy -- in the sense that if you fool around with this underage girl, you could wind up in jail.
    #20AuthorMissGrundy04 Jun 03, 00:01
    Suggestionlayabout
    Comment
    a "good-for-nothing layabout"
    doesn't care, isn't active, might well be dangerous or misbehaving...
    #21AuthorAndrew (UK)04 Jun 03, 10:00
    Comment
    Do we have to count "punks" as a false friend? In Germany, Punks are the people running around in really tattered black clothing, colourful and often spiky hairstyles, who own white rats as pets and listen to punk music.
    You could argue that they are subdevision of "Halbstarke", but when I think of Halbstarke, its not Punks who come to my mind, but trying to picture the current breed of Halbstarke, those mostly wear labels and are not in the least politically minded or dropping out of society the way punks do.

    Lizzie: It might be that adolescent sound so scientific to my ears as "Adoleszenz" is sociologists German for the age between say 12 and 20.
    #22AuthorCJ de04 Jun 03, 10:12
    Suggestionwhippersnapper
    Sources
    Comment
    If you need to see the world from the perspective of someone at least 60, then this one might fit Jutta's bill:

    "(youngsters with) 'a certain arrogant, falsely self-assured outlook on life and other people. They think they can do anything, because they are to(o) young to recognize their limitations"

    You have to imagine an old man shaking his fist at a load of "bloody whippersnappers" who've just kicked away his walking stick.

    I can't better the meaning given in the website reference:

    "Whippersnapper" is a somewhat archaic term, rarely heard today outside of movies, and then usually from the mouth of a character portrayed as chronologically-challenged and hopelessly old-fashioned to boot. A "whippersnapper" is an impertinent young person, usually a young man, whose lack of proper respect for the older generation is matched only by his laziness and lack of motivation to better himself...Though "whippersnapper" originally referred to a young man with no visible ambition, the term has changed somewhat over the years, and today is more likely to be applied to a youngster with an excess of both ambition and impertinence.




    #23AuthorIan04 Jun 03, 10:55
    Comment
    To MissGrundy: Your explanation of "jailbait" certainly makes sense, but I've only EVER heard it in the said film, and the woman was forever saying it in almost a vituperative way to the young man, like one would say "you rotten *+%$§", and not really in relation to the girl, as far as I could work out.
    He's just bait for jails, bait in the sense of easy prey.

    "She's jail bait", does seem plausible however.
    Oh but ignorance was such bliss.

    I think I still like the old version.
    #24Authorbarty04 Jun 03, 11:03
    Comment
    Hi Barty -- just saw your reaction to my comment. I've never heard "jailbait" used to refer to a male, and I'm curious about the movie it was in. You just sent me to my dictionary, which indeed says "a girl under the age of consent with whom sexual intercourse is unlawful." She's the "bait" that will get you thrown in jail.

    Are you sure the word in the film wasn't "jailBIRD"? That certainly refers to a man, someone who's a habitual criminal, in and out of jail. Just wondering.
    #25AuthorMissGrundy19 Jul 03, 18:47
    Comment
    Funny discussion. To complete the confusion: "Weltschmerz" and other very german terms made it into the English language. Why not introduce another one?
    #26AuthorPaul21 Jul 03, 00:35
    Comment
    ich denke greenhorn wäre auch noch passend
    #28Authorken block08 Oct 10, 10:20
    Comment
    Neither "fuckwit" nor "young turks" nor "greenhorn" would fit. No idea about the "halfpipes", though.
    #29Author B.L.Z. Bubb (601295) 08 Oct 10, 10:22
    SuggestionYoung whippersnapper
    Sources
    ... is what my dad used to call me and my "buddies" when I was around 14 ...16 yrs old, and I do believe we would have qualified as Halbstarke. According to Webster's 3rd Int'l Dictionary, a whippersnapper is a "diminutive, insignificant or presumptuous person".
    Right! With the possible exception of "diminutive", and including the adjective "young", that's exactly what we were: grossly unaware of our limitations, meaning no real harm, but generally getting on everyone's nerves.
    #30AuthorLoTran (465511) 13 Jun 11, 17:32
     
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