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  • Subject

    Onkel zweiten Grades

    Ein Vetter meiner Mutter oder meines Vaters ist mein Onkel zweiten Grades.
    Anybody out there who could help with this?
    Authornequissima07 Feb 07, 00:50
    Für den Suchbegriff 'Onkel+zweiten+Grades' liefert LEO:

    second-grade relative = Verwandter zweiten Grades

    und außerdem noch

    Uncle = Onkel . . .

    Mein Herz, was begehrst Du noch mehr ? . . .
    #1AuthorDaddy07 Feb 07, 00:56
    um, I think that LEO entry will only satisfy BE hearts... ;-)
    For AE, I think this is an "uncle twice removed".
    #2Authorwpr (236109) 07 Feb 07, 01:01
    At least in AE, the cousin of your father or mother would be your cousin once removed, not your uncle. When the word "removed" is used to describe a relationship, it indicates that the two people are from different generations. You and your first cousins are in the same generation (two generations younger than your grandparents), so the word "removed" is not used to describe your relationship.

    The words "once removed" mean that there is a difference of one generation. For example, your mother's first cousin is your first cousin, once removed. This is because your mother's first cousin is one generation younger than your grandparents and you are two generations younger than your grandparents. This one-generation difference equals "once removed."

    Twice removed means that there is a two-generation difference. You are two generations younger than a first cousin of your grandmother, so you and your grandmother's first cousin are first cousins, twice removed.
    #3Author dude (253248) 07 Feb 07, 01:06
    @ wpr: Hi! - If the Uncle is not removed twice from his grave [ ;:-) ], could you make him a 'New Entry' for LEO, pls ? . . .
    #4AuthorDaddy07 Feb 07, 01:07
    I agree with dude. This would be a cousin once removed.
    Your mother's/father's cousin can't suddenly become an uncle, unless you use that "title" to be polite, cute, or whatever.
    #5AuthorRES-can07 Feb 07, 01:14
    @ dude: Thank you for the explanations . . .

    Without thinking too much about it (as it's very late), the equivalent in German would/should be:

    'ersten Grades' for 'once removed'
    'zweiten Grades' for 'twice removed' . . .
    #6AuthorDaddy07 Feb 07, 01:22
    @Daddy: I do like your "second-grasde relative." LOL Is that like a second-rate relative? There are lots of those all over the place, I hear...
    #7Author dude (253248) 07 Feb 07, 01:25
    Daddy, dude, RES-can are right. We wouldn't call it an uncle, this would be a cousin once removed.
    The info is from the Wikipedia.

    My reaction was aimed at "second-grade relative", which to Amer. ears sounds like a relative in second grade, ie. in der zweiten Klasse. It should be flagged as BE. I will try and do something about correcting it, but now it's bedtime. ;-)

    #8Authorwpr (236109) 07 Feb 07, 01:29
    Oh, dude! - You know better than to mix German with English (or realtives with criminal offences)! -


    first cousin = der Cousin ersten Grades
    first cousin = die Cousine ersten Grades
    first-grade relative = der Verwandte ersten Grades
    first-grade relative = die Verwandte ersten Grades
    second-grade relative = Verwandter zweiten Grades

    wpr, for me, too . . .
    #9AuthorDaddy07 Feb 07, 01:33
    >um, I think that LEO entry will only satisfy BE hearts... ;-)

    No it won't :-)
    Please don't try and get it flagged BE - it's simply wrong
    There is a recent discussion somewhere ("wrong entry" or possibly a "new entry") that covers the issue of "first-grade relative" being incorrect but I'm too tired to look for it now.
    Good night.
    #10Author Marianne (BE) (237471) 07 Feb 07, 01:39
    SuggestionOnkel - oder Vetter - zweiten Grades
    Thanks to all of you, whether AE or BE based ... so it's a cousin once removed.

    -> a cousin always means a first-grade cousin in AE and BE?

    -> what about "ein Vetter/Cousin zweiten Grades" (being a grandson of my grandmother's/grandfather's brother/sister) ?? Very confusing .....

    Obviously I still need some help, both from AEs and BEs - please.
    #11Authornequissima07 Feb 07, 22:43
    re: entry 10.

    As another BE I agree with Marianne. I've never come across "graded" relatives before, only ones "removed".
    #12AuthorSteveG (292326) 07 Feb 07, 22:54
    Suggestioncousins german
    Oddly enough, "cousins german" is an old expresion for "first cousins."

    The children of brothers and sisters, first cousins; kinsfolk. (Latin, germánus, a brother, one of the same stock.)

    “There is three cozen-germans that has cozened all the hosts of Reading, of Maidenhead, of Colebrook, of horses and money.” —Shakespeare: Merry Wives of Windsor, iv.5.
    #13AuthorRobNYNY07 Feb 07, 22:58
    For reasons unknown the thread I was thinking of has transposed itself into the Spanish forum format ¿Entrada incorrecta?:
    related discussion: first-grade relative - Verwandte ersten Grades
    but it can be seen that "first-grade relative" and "second-grade relative" are both considered second-rate translations.

    First-degree relative
    Any relative who is one meiosis away from a particular individual in a family (i.e., parent, sibling, offspring)

    Second-degree relative
    Any relative who is two meioses away from a particular individual in a pedigree; a relative with whom one quarter of an individual's genes is shared (i.e., grandparent, grandchild, uncle, aunt, nephew, niece, half-sibling)

    third-degree relative
    a relative with whom you share one-eighth of your genes, such as your first cousins.

    Having had another look, however, "die Verwandtschaft ersten Grades" seems to cover first-, second- and third-degree relatives
    "Die Verwandtschaft ersten Grades umfasst neben Vater, Mutter und Geschwistern, die unmittelbaren Geschwister der Eltern (Tanten, Onkel ersten Grades) sowie deren unmittelbaren Kinder (Cousins/ Cousinen ersten Grades). "

    (information linked by Poppidirk (aka Bacon) in #4 of the follwoing thread:
    related discussion: cousin removed

    related discussion: first-grade relative - Verwandte ersten Grades
    #14Author Marianne (BE) (237471) 07 Feb 07, 23:01
    Children of siblings are FIRST COUSINS to each other. Let's take your maternal grandmother and her brother, for example. Their children are first cousins to each other. They're also your mother and your uncles or aunts.
    Children of FIRST COUSINS are SECOND COUSINS to each other. That means your mother's children (in our example) are you and your siblings, and you are second cousins to your mother's siblings' children. Got it so far?
    Children of SECOND COUSINS are THIRD COUSINS to each other. Your children (should you have some) will be third cousins to any children your mother's siblings' grandchildren may have.

    How's that for an easy overview?
    #15Author dude (253248) 07 Feb 07, 23:07
    This chart may help to sort out the "removed"s:
    #16Author Marianne (BE) (237471) 07 Feb 07, 23:11
    Hi Marianne. Yes, I did some checking earlier for a thread about "cousins" and couldn't find anything. Of course, I didn't bother to look in the Spanish forum!
    Sorry about my suggestion last night that "second-grade relative" was BE. I ridiculously assumed that the LEO entry was somehow correct and that since it sounded wrong to me, it must be BE. I'll try and be more careful in the future about jumping to such conclusions.
    Wonder how such an entry got into LEO in the first place?
    #17Authorwpr (236109) 07 Feb 07, 23:31
    just to add to the first-degree relative:
    nobody really talks like this.

    This type of language is usually used in Wills and other legal docs.
    eg., I bestow and bequeath to my first-degree children, the sum of my assets blabla
    (biological and legally adopted children, as opposed to stepchildren)
    #18AuthorRES-can08 Feb 07, 01:04
    Hi RES-can
    re "-degree relative"
    Agree 100% that these terms are restricted to legal, medical (and genealogical) use.
    They are important in e.g. family history of breast cancer, but not what most people would actually say.

    In any case, the LEO entries of "first-/second-grade relative" are wrong and need to be corrected, but I'm not sure how exactly. Perhaps it would be better to list the possibilities individually and propose separate entries ...

    For the moment, at least we all (AE/BE) agree that
    Onkel - oder Vetter - zweiten Grades = cousin once removed :-)
    #19AuthorMarianne (BE) unplugged08 Feb 07, 09:24
    SuggestionOnkel, Vettern und andere Verwandte
    @ Marianne - and to whom it may concern

    what about this one?

    THanks very much - again!

    #20Authornequissima15 Feb 07, 09:04
    It is removed and not graded and speaking of relatives, I wish someone would remove some of mine.
    #21AuthorJGMcI15 Feb 07, 09:19
    So, what are my children and my cousins' children to each other? (We always wanted to know this...) They belong to the same generation.

    In German, they are "Cousins/Cousinen zweiten Grades".

    And in English?
    #22Authormartina (240840) 15 Feb 07, 09:43
    @martina: They are second cousins.
    #23AuthorJoe W15 Feb 07, 09:49
    Suggestion1st grade cousin
    They do use 1st GRADE cousin in New Mexico, Illinois and Texas. I know because I just recently found family there. And when they tried to explain my relationship to different people, all of them - apart from eachother - used the word GRADE. I think it might originate from degree... Not sure about that though.
    And on the other side, I've never come across "removed"... Not even my step-grama's genealogical research which went way back - a couple of 100 yrs... Oh well.
    #24Author tanya (249551) 15 Nov 07, 16:35
    Suggestionfirst cousin once removed

    Auf diesen Tafeln ist es gut vergleichbar. Möglicherweise sagt man in Amerika 1st grade cousin, das kann ich nicht so gut beurteilen.

    #25Author Harri Beau (812872) 27 Sep 18, 11:45

    Zu cousin once removed hatten wir erst kürzlich mehrere parallele Diskussionen ...

    #26Author no me bré (700807) 27 Sep 18, 12:21

    Ja, habe ich teilweise gesehen. Daher meine ich, es wäre höchste Zeit, das ins Wörterbuch einzutragen. Es scheint ja Informationsbedarf zu bestehen.

    related discussion: first cousin once removed - Großcousin; Gro... - #15

    #27Author Harri Beau (812872) 27 Sep 18, 12:59
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