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    Translation correct?

    Geheimnisträger, Berufsgeheimnisträger - bearer/holder of (professional) secrets

    Source Language Term

    Geheimnisträger, Berufsgeheimnisträger

    Correct?

    bearer/holder of (professional) secrets

    Comment

    Es gibt schon einen Eintrag im LEO-Wörterbuch, eine Diskussion zu Geheimnisträger und heute eine solche zu Bedufsgeheimnisträger.


    Mich interessiert die Meinung zur Frage, ob man eher


    bearer of secrets

    oder holder of secrets

    sagt.


    Die englischen Muttersprachler im Link verwenden holder,

    Berufsgeheimnisträger - Englisch gesucht: Englisch ⇔ Deutsch Forum - leo.org


    Collins meint bearer.

    English Translation of “Geheimnisträger” | Collins German-English Dictionary (collinsdictionary.com)


    Gibt es dazu weiter führende Hinweise?





    Authorwienergriessler (925617)  26 May 22, 18:21
    Context/ examples

    Duden - Geheimnisträger

    männliche Person, die dienstlich Einblick in Sachverhalte (besonders militärischer und politischer Art) bekommt, die vor der Öffentlichkeit geheim zu halten sind

    Comment

    That depends a great deal on what you mean by Geheimnisträger.

    Do you mean

    a person who possesses knowledge of confidential information

    a person who possesses knowledge of confidential information acquired in a professional relationship or

    a person who is bound by a legal obligation not to disclose confidential information?

    #1AuthorAE procrastinator (1268904) 27 May 22, 12:49
    Comment

    Ich meine solche Leute, denen ein "Geheimnis" anvertraut worden ist , also Tatsachen, die sie nicht ausplaudern dürfen (z.B. Rechtsanwälte,Pfarrer )

    #2Authorwienergriessler (925617)  27 May 22, 12:53
    Comment

    Those are people who have a "duty of secrecy". There are many ways to say that. In some contexts, people tend to use the word "secrecy", in some "confidentiality" is more common. Some people use "duty" more, some use the word "obligation". In officialese they often "are bound by" or "are subject to", rather than "have" the obligation.

    Edit: you can also leave the "duty" or "obligation" out, and say bound by professional secrecy/confidentiality.

    But I get the feeling you are looking for a term that includes a personal noun, is that right? You don't want to say "person who..."

    A secrecy-duty-bearer, so to speak.

    !! Please note: I would never say that, other than in jest.


    Both "holder of secrets" and "bearer of secrets" sound acceptable to me, though a bit... old-fashioned or fantasy-fiction-fraught. But neither of them tells me that the person has an obligation to hold those secrets confidential. Only that they have secrets that they are keeping.



    #3AuthorAE procrastinator (1268904)  27 May 22, 13:36
    Comment

    Danke für die ausführliche Antwort.

    Ich suche eigentlich nach einem Begriff, der in einem Gesetz zur Verschwiegenheitspflicht stehen könnte, um die Person zu benennen, die zum Schweigen über anvertraute Sachverhalte verpflichtet ist, wie eben z.B. Rechtsanwälte oder 'Pfarrer. - Aus Deiner Antwort entnehme ich, dass sowohl "bearer" als auch "holder" zumindest verständliche Begriffe sind.

    #4Authorwienergriessler (925617) 27 May 22, 14:07
    Comment

    Secrets does not mean secrecy. To be the "bearer" or "holder" of secrets is not the same as being the "bearer" of a duty of secrecy.

    You want a word for people who have a legal obligation of professional secrecy. I do not know a term for that containing a personal noun that is in common use.


    #5AuthorAE procrastinator (1268904) 27 May 22, 14:35
    Comment

    einen griffigen Begriff kenne ich nicht, ich würde umschreiben:

    a person that is under a duty of professional secrecy

    #6Authorlibritor (876887) 27 May 22, 15:55
    Comment

    Ich möchte diese Gelegenheit nutzen, um meine (geringen) allgemeinen Kenntnisse der englischen Sprache zu erweitern:


    Sind in der Umschreibung (aus #6) "a person that is under a duty of professional secrecy" die Wörter "that is" erforderlich (oder gar "idiomatisch") - oder ließe sich auch (kürzer) umschreiben "a person under [subject to] a duty of professional secrecy"??

    #7AuthorKurt A. (1313470)  27 May 22, 18:01
    Comment

    First: "person that" is ok, but many people prefer "person who". Geschmacksache.


    The shorter form is fine, provided that it doesn't result in ambiguity in the sentence. You see it a lot in legal texts, particulary with "person under a duty of care".


    With this phrase, even if there was ambiguity, it would not be particularly dangerous:

    "The information was disclosed to a person subject to an obligation of confidentiality." Whether "subject to..." is an adjectival phrase modifying "person" or an adverbial phrase modifying "was disclosed", the person still has to keep the information secret.


    But suppose the information was disclosed to a person under a mandate. Was it the disclosure that was mandated or the person? And perhaps obviously, if you were asked to disclose information to a person under a cow... you would probably want clarification before you agreed.

    #8AuthorAE procrastinator (1268904) 27 May 22, 20:45
     
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