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    sawbones - Quacksalber

    Beispiele/ Definitionen mit Quellen
    saw·bones noun \ˈsȯ-ˌbōnz\
    plural sawbones or saw·bones·es
    Definition of SAWBONES
    slang
    : physician, surgeon
    http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/sawbones

    sawbones - definition
    NOUN [COUNTABLE] AMERICAN INFORMAL /ˈsɔˌboʊnz/
    a doctor, especially one who does operations
    http://www.macmillandictionary.com/dictionary...

    As usual, the self-impressed sawbones served irrelevant thoughts about his own godlike qualities
    http://www.dailyhowler.com/dh012703.shtml

    It was a gentle sawbones and his name was Doctor Brown.
    http://oldpoetry.com/oauthor/show/bert_leston...

    Yeah. You're the new sawbones.
    http://communicationsoffice.tripod.com/4-21.txt

    Ein Urteil des Verfassungsgerichtes aus dem Jahr 2004 hat in der Branche der Handaufleger zu einem Boom geführt. Gerade Schwerkranke hoffen auf "paramedizinische" Hilfe - und landen oft bei Quacksalbern.
    http://www.sueddeutsche.de/geld/quacksalber-u...

    Quacksalber, Bader und Knochenbrecher !?
    http://www.altameda.de/cms/aktuelles/05/21030...

    Medizin-Gütesiegel: Quacksalber outen
    http://www.focus.de/kultur/diverses/navigator...
    Kommentar
    This may need a slang and/or an AE marking. I'm not sure.
    I couldn't find it in a BE dictionary (looked at 2).
    Verfasseropine (680211) 20 Feb. 11, 02:33
    Ergebnisse aus dem Wörterbuch
    quackder Quacksalber
    mountebank   - charlatander Quacksalber
    charlatander Quacksalber
    quacksalverder Quacksalber
    quacksterder Quacksalber
    quack doctorder Quacksalber
    quackish  Adj.wie ein Quacksalber
    Kontext/ Beispiele
    http://oxforddictionaries.com/view/entry/m_en...
    sawbones
    Pronunciation: /ˈsɔːbəʊnz/
    noun (plural same)
    informal
    a doctor or surgeon.

    http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/qua...
    quack·sal·ver noun \ˈkwak-ˌsal-vər\
    Definition of QUACKSALVER
    : charlatan, quack
    Examples of QUACKSALVER
    the medical impostors on the information superhighway are no more scrupulous than earlier quacksalvers who traveled along the streets of towns and villages
    Origin of QUACKSALVER
    obsolete Dutch (now kwakzalver)
    First Known Use: 1579
    Kommentar
    Sorry, opine, but I cannot accept the equivalence of sawbones with Quacksalber. Hawkeye, in M*A*S*H was a sawbones, not a Quacksalber.
    #1VerfasserAgalinis (714472) 20 Feb. 11, 04:41
    Kommentar
    Thanks for finding a BE reference, Agalinis.
    I get your point, and I accept that you don't accept^^.
    But I think it's a viable alternative in the German?

    Or ... @German native speakers, what would be a better match
    for the German side?

    EDIT: Funny you mention M*A*S*H. I used to go hiking in LA
    near where they shot that series. But, Hawkeye a sawbones?
    I don't think that's quite the connotation of a sawbones.
    Gosh, good point though.
    #2Verfasseropine (680211) 20 Feb. 11, 05:11
    Kontext/ Beispiele
    "Sawbones: Slang name for a surgeon and, in particular, an orthopaedic surgeon (who may have "sawed bones" on the battlefield in days gone by)."

    The term "sawbones" has been in use for many years, as in: "What, don't you know what a Sawbones is, Sir," enquired Mr. Weller; "I thought everybody know'd as a Sawbones was a Surgeon." (Dickens, Pickwick Papers, 1837).
    http://www.medterms.com/script/main/art.asp?a...
    Kommentar
    Not supported. The term "sawbones" used to be applied to any doctor who performed (in those days) his own operations. Today it is used for surgeons, particularly orthopods - in the UK you wouldn't call your GP a "sawbones", although you might humourously refer to him/her as "the quack".

    It is slang but not necessarily derogatory, many "sawbones" (including Hawkeye ;-) are extremely good at what they do, e.g.
    "Not good mate. Sorry about the back.
    Get yourself to a good sawbones.
    "

    The tone of the dictionary entries and examples given above is fairly neutral - a doctor/physician, especially a surgeon/an orthopaedic surgeon.

    "Quacksalber", on the other hand, has a distinctly negative feel to it - a quack or charlatan with fraudulent practices.
    #3VerfasserMarianne (BE) (237471) 20 Feb. 11, 10:53
    Kontext/ Beispiele
    Kommentar
    Vielleicht "Knochenflicker"?
    #4VerfasserLe Chat (489415) 20 Feb. 11, 11:06
    Kommentar
    ... ich bevorzuge da: Siehe auch: Knochenbrecher . . .

    Edit: Wer sagt's denn: http://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Knochenbrecher . . .

    2. Edit: ... und in heutigen Zeiten, abgeleitet vom 'Pferdeflüsterer' (das Original war Monty Roberts), gibt es gar den 'Knochenflüsterer':

    http://books.google.de/books?id=aOW_Q6BHJfoC... . . .
    #5VerfasserDaddy . . . (533448) 20 Feb. 11, 11:25
    Kommentar
    Daddy, that doesn't really pair up either - a "sawbones" is slang for a qualified doctor/surgeon, which a "Knochenbrecher" doesn't seem to be. Nor does the "Knochenbrecher" actually perform operations - manipulation more like (= "bone cruncher").
    #6VerfasserMarianne (BE) (237471) 20 Feb. 11, 11:49
    Kommentar
    ... dann kann ich noch anbieten: Ein 'Doktor Eisenbarth':

    http://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Doktor_Eisenbarth . . .
    #7VerfasserDaddy . . . (533448) 20 Feb. 11, 11:55
    Kommentar
    Nein, auch Dr. Eisenbarth paßt nicht. Es geht doch um eine scherzhafte Bezeichnung für einen Chirurgen, der sein Fach beherrscht.

    Ich kenne als 'scherzhafte' Bezeichnungen für Chirurgen Aufschneider oder Metzger.
    #8VerfasserSelima (107) 20 Feb. 11, 12:54
    Vorschläge

    sawbones

    -

    Knochenbrecher



    Kommentar
    Thanks much for the discussion. I read this and the other thread (a link for posterity):
    Siehe auch: sawbones

    Good links and info.

    The above is still not an optimal match (sawbones = Knochenbrecher) from what I gather, but the consensus is that it's better than "Quacksalber".
    #9Verfasseropine (680211) 20 Feb. 11, 23:53
    Vorschläge

    sawbones (sl.)

    -

    1. 'Medizinmann' (Arzt). 2. 'Bauchaufschneider' (Chirurg)



    Kontext/ Beispiele
    Muret-Sanders
    Kommentar
    Zu #8

    Robert Gernhardt hat in einem Gedicht, in dem er seinen Krankenhausaufenthalt wegen Herzinfartk verarbeitete, scherzhaft von den "Aufschneidern" (den Chirurgen) und den "Aufgeschnittenen" (den Patienten) erzählt.
    #10VerfasserMiMo (236780) 21 Feb. 11, 07:46
    Kontext/ Beispiele
    Chambers 21st Century Dictionary
    sawbones noun (sawbones or sawboneses) slang a surgeon
    http://www.chambersharrap.co.uk/chambers/feat...

    "Ein Knochenbrecher (plattdeutsch Knakenbreker) ist laut volkstümlicher ostfriesischer Bezeichnung ein traditioneller, alternativer Heilkundler."
    http://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Knochenbrecher

    "Ein Chiropraktiker. Bei uns nennt man das Knochenbrecher."
    http://forum.zooplus.de/archive/index.php/t-6...

    "Nebst den Ärzten gab es Apotheker, Hebammen, Chirurgen (die eher Handwerker als Wissenschaftler waren, genau wie heute noch die "Knochenbrecher" (noblere Bezeichnung: Chiropraktiker), Scharfrichter, Feldscherer, Olitätenhändler, Arzneimittelhändler, Okulisten, Steinschneider, Dentisten, Kräuterhändler, Materialisten, Winkelapotheker ..."
    http://www.brainworker.ch/Wissen/wissen_und_m...
    Kommentar
    #9 The consensus consisting of?

    The term "sawbones" as a slang term appears in several reputable dictionaries and has long been in use to mean a surgeon (see #3).

    So far I haven't seen you give any examples of the use of "Knochenbrecher" with a similar meaning except on an "I say so" basis. And while I accept that Sir Pooh de Bear has/would use the term in this way, I'd still like you to provide some solid evidence that it is not just used for a "horse whisperer" or "chiropracter/bone cruncher" ...

    For example:
    "Liebe Kolleginnen und Kollegen! Wir Chirurgen haben von alters her mit Vorurteilen in der Öffentlichkeit zu kämpfen. Schon im Altertum gab es Satiren über quack-salbernde Knochenbrecher."
    http://www.redenwelt.de/rede-ideen/anekdoten/...
    Although this still has the flavour of quackery about it, which sawbones doesn't.
    So how about this:
    "Ebenso MUSS ich eine OSG-Luxation (mit V.a. Fraktur) draussen nicht reponieren (wieder hinbiegen), wenn die Durchblutung, Sensibilität und die Motorik völlig normal ist und die Schmerzen sich im Rahmen halten. Ich bin kein Chirurg. Ich hab das zwar schon mal gemacht, aber warum es nicht den Knochenbrecher machen lassen, der das schon ZIG mal gemacht hat?"
    http://holzhammer.wordpress.com/tag/notfallme...

    And if you want "Knochenbrecher" to be added to the dictionary, you really need to give the other options as well. Otherwise horse whisperers and chiropracters are going to be referred to as "sawbones" - which they aren't.
    #11VerfasserMarianne (BE) (237471) 21 Feb. 11, 08:13
    Kommentar
    ... just for the record: In #5, I added 'Knochenflüsterer', i.e. 'bone whisperer' . . .

    Edit: I remembered another term for a military (para)medic: 'Feldscher' . . .

    LEO: 'doctor's assistant [mil.][med.] = der Feldscher' . . .
    #12VerfasserDaddy . . . (533448) 21 Feb. 11, 10:09
    Kommentar
    #10, MiMo, Sounds like a viable to me. (Medizinmann)

    @Daddy ..., "Knochenflüsterer" wäre mir am liebsten, wenn es bei Leo ginge.^^

    #11, Marianne, Isn't this doppelt-gemoppelt: Schon im Altertum gab es Satiren über quack-salbernde Knochenbrecher. Anyway, thanks for more input. I'm not suggesting anything is right, just trying to move things in the right direction, according to what I've read, and how people have interpreted the term (sawbones).

    FWIW, for SAWBONES, thesaurus says:
    Main Entry:physician
    Part of Speech:noun
    Definition:person trained in medical science
    Synonyms:MD, bones, doc, doctor, general practitioner, healer, intern, medic, medical practitioner, quack, sawbones, specialist, surgeon
    http://thesaurus.com/browse/sawbones

    Maybe "sawbones" needs "eine Umschreibung" for a proper entry? Anyway, I don't think Leo will consider this in the meantime, and it takes forever for things to be looked at (understandably), but it's a good source for anyone who stumbles across this, so it can't be all bad! Thanks all.
    #13Verfasseropine (680211) 22 Feb. 11, 07:23
     
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