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    Translation correct?

    Pascal - Philosophy Quote / Philosophie Zitat - Any philosophers out there.. can't find the original…

    Source Language Term

    Pascal - Philosophy Quote / Philosophie Zitat

    Correct?

    Any philosophers out there.. can't find the original translation.

    Examples/ definitions with source references

    "Keine sonderlich erhabene Seele ist nötig, um zu begreifen, dass es auf Erden keine wahrhafte und beständige Zufriedenheit gibt und dass all unsere Vergnügungen nur eitel sind, dass unsere Leiden unzählbar sind und dass zum Schluss der Tod, der uns ständig bedroht, uns unaufhebbar in wenigen Jahren vor die entsetzliche Notwendigkeit stellen wird, dass wir entweder auf ewig vernichtet oder auf ewig unglücklich sind."


    I just ran it through Google Translate. Does it sound okay to the native speakers:


    "It does not take a particularly exalted soul to understand that there is no true and enduring contentment on earth, and that all our pleasures are in vain, that our sufferings are innumerable, and that finally death, which constantly threatens us, inevitably leaves us in few years will confront the dire necessity of our being either perpetually destroyed or perpetually miserable."

    Comment

    .. couldn't find the original English translation... maybe Pascal was never that popular in UK / USA?

    Author Litti74 (873022) 05 Oct 22, 23:45
    Context/ examples

    We do not require great education of the mind to understand that here is no real and lasting satisfaction; that our pleasures are only vanity; that our evils are infinite; and, lastly, that death, which threatens us every moment, must infallibly place us within a few years under the dreadful necessity of being for ever either annihilated or unhappy.

    https://www.gutenberg.org/files/18269/18269-h... (pensée 194; p. 55)

    Pascal's Pensées, (English ed.), N.Y.: E.P.Dutton 1958

    digitalised version: paperback 2006

    Comment

    Not that difficult, to be honest.

    What would you consider "the original English translation" - the first complete edition of a work originally published in 1660?

    #1Authorreverend (314585)  06 Oct 22, 00:21
    Comment

    Perfect. Thanks!

    #2AuthorLitti74 (873022) 06 Oct 22, 00:32
    Comment

    Pascal wrote his work (a collection of thoughts not properly connected but meant to be an apology of Christian belief) probably before 1660 and published in French (being the original) first in 1670, eight years after his death.

    The first complete English translation was published by John Walker in 1688.

    The quotation in #1 is from "the new" translation by W.F. Trotter, published in 1958. This is regarded as the current standard translation into English.

    #3Authorreverend (314585) 06 Oct 22, 00:39
    Comment

    Keine sonderlich erhabene Seele ist nötig vs. We do not require great education ... da fragt man sich schon, was Pascal im Original wirklich geschrieben hat.

    #4Authormbshu (874725) 06 Oct 22, 06:53
    Context/ examples

    Il ne faut pas avoir l’âme fort élevée pour comprendre qu’il n’y a point ici de satisfaction véritable et solide, que tous nos plaisirs ne sont que vanité, que nos maux sont infinis, et qu’enfin la mort, qui nous menace à chaque instant, doit infailliblement nous mettre, dans peu d’années, dans l’horrible nécessité d’être éternellement ou anéantis ou malheureux.


    http://www.penseesdepascal.fr/XXIV/XXIV35-mod...

    Comment

    voilà...

    #5AuthorMartin--cal (272273) 06 Oct 22, 07:20
    Comment

    Meer Sie Bock Kuh!


    Da habe ich zur current standard translation into English aber kein Vertrauen mehr ...

    #6Authormbshu (874725) 06 Oct 22, 09:02
    Comment

    --- edit ---

    #7Authorno me bré (700807)  06 Oct 22, 09:05
    Context/ examples

    https://www.google.de/books/edition/The_Thoug...

    Above is the 1859 translation

    The linke below leads to Krailsheimers, though of course that is copyright protected.

    https://www.google.de/books/edition/Pensees/S... (Krailsheimer)

    Comment

    Curious, Google themselves digitized a 1859 translation O.W. Wight for Google Books - I wonder why their translation engine didn't find it... surely they plug their digitized books into that thing?

     Wight

    It is not necessary to have a very elevated soul in order to comprehend that there is here no true and solid enjoyment ; that all our pleasures are but vanity : that our ills are infinite ; and that, in fine , death which threatens us every instant must, in a few years, infallibly reduce us to the horrible necessity of eternal annihilation or misery.


    BTW, I'm not quibbling with reverend's statement that Trotter's is the authoritative standard translation, just thought I'd mention Krailshaimer's too (1995), it seems to have a lot of fans. I think it is fair to say that it is "the new" one, at the very least. : )


    Edit I got a peek at part at the K's translation first part of the quotation, sounds good, doesn't it?

    Krailsheimer:

    One needs no great sublimity of soul to realize that in this life there is not true and solid satisfaction, that all our pleasures are mere vanity, that our afflictions are infinite and finally that death which threatens us at every


    Ah! "in fine" is Latin, I thought it was a typo...

     

    #8AuthorAE procrastinator (1268904)  06 Oct 22, 09:48
    Comment

    It does sound good. And the continuation too:


    #427: One needs no great sublimity of soul to realize that in this life there is no true and solid satisfaction, that all our pleasures are mere vanity, that our afflictions are infinite, and finally that death which threatens us at every moment must in a few years infallibly face us with the inescapable and appalling alternative of being annihilated or wretched throughout eternity.

    (Blaise Pascal, Pensées, tr. A. J. Krailsheimer [1995], p. 129)


    It makes one want to reread Pascal.

    #9AuthorBion (1092007)  06 Oct 22, 10:48
    Comment

    Oh Bion, thank you, I heard my procrastination timer ticking and didn't try to find the continuation, very nice of you to provide the biograph. details for the OPer too, or anyone else who comes looking.


    #10AuthorAE procrastinator (1268904) 06 Oct 22, 10:53
    Comment

    ---

    #11AuthorBion (1092007)  06 Oct 22, 10:59
    Comment

    Re ##5 und 8-10


    (OT)

    I heard my procrastination timer ticking... 🤣


    Ich habe zwar von der Materie nur eine Laien-Ahnung, finde es aber immer wieder erhellend und löblich, wenn LEOniden wie Martin, AE procrastinator und bion ihrer Neigung Lauf lassen.

    Danke dafür.

    #12Authorkarla13 (1364913)  06 Oct 22, 11:48
    Comment

    Another good translation, newer still (for what that’s worth) than Krailsheimer (whose translation apparently first came out in 1966), as literal as Wight’s, but modern in word-choice and phrasing:

     

    We do not need a greatly elevated soul to understand that there is no real and solid satisfaction here; that all our pleasures are only vanity; that our ills are infinite; and that finally death, which threatens us at every moment, must in a few years infallibly place us under the horrible necessity of being either annihilated or wretched eternally. (Blaise Pascal, Pensées, ed. and tr. Roger Ariew [2004], p. 217)

     


    "… ihrer Neigung Lauf lassen."

     

    Nettere Version von „ihren Senf, usw.“? Nein! Freundliche Wertschätzung. In trüber Zeit? Nein! Die Sonne scheint.

    Danke. :-)

    #13AuthorBion (1092007) 06 Oct 22, 13:25
    Comment

    Oops, apologies, could have sworn I read 1995, but it was probably just the edition. No wonder I couldn't find much on the person.

    "Infallibly place us"? Interesting. That sounds a bit different than inevitably, doesn't it? Unfailingly would have seemed equivalent. I don't know where to find a historical definition of infailliblement. Oh well, it doesn't sound like an accident, I'm sure Mr. Ariew knows what he's about. Curious...

    I keep asking myself how one can be annihilated eternally (or throughout eternally)... sounds like such a one-time deal ; )

    #14AuthorAE procrastinator (1268904) 06 Oct 22, 14:06
    Comment

    I only hit on it by chance (in Ariew’s bibliography). ;-)

     

    It’s not the sense of “infallible” we’re generally confronted with today, but fwiw it’s listed in OED (and not tagged “obsolete” or whatever) as sense 2: “Of things: Not liable to fail, unfailing.”

     

    The “eternally” jars there, doesn’t it. I decided to take it, then, as applying only to “wretched.” But in Pascal it explicitly applies to both. There’s something Sisypheanly horrid about the idea.


    Afterthought. The F. “anéantis” unambiguously denotes a state, rather than an act, whereas the E. “annihilated” is ambiguous. ?

    #15AuthorBion (1092007)  06 Oct 22, 14:26
    Comment

    The F. “anéantis” unambiguously denotes a state - It does? Oh good, that's rather comforting. My French is not up to making that call.

    Far be it from me to condemn a bit of fudging by a translator in a good cause, but I don't like it that all of them left me scratching my head, wondering why the eternal-bit came after wretched and not before (and thinking about an endless successtion of infinitely smaller approaches to total annihilation.... your reincarnation for annihilation purposes version having, fortunately, not occurred to me).


    Karli13: praise from the poster who stuck it out through those hundreds of sentence building exercises is an honour (ahem, though more than a bit embarrassing, due to the whole dilletantish procrastination thing, and because there are people with such wonderful expertise who've been answering people's questions for years and years.... )

    #16AuthorAE procrastinator (1268904) 06 Oct 22, 15:19
    Comment

    Re #16 (und 13)


    Karli13: praise from the poster who stuck it out through those hundreds of sentence building exercises is an honour...

    I really like the Karli part...[blush and giggle]

    Das mit den Satzbildungsübungen mach ich doch gern, das zählt zur Völkerverständigung. 😉


    (ahem, though more than a bit embarrassing, due to the whole dilletantish procrastination thing,

    and because there are people with such wonderful expertise who've been answering people's questions for years and years.... )

    dilletantish: Jetzt stellst du dein Licht aber unter den Scheffel!

    → DAS STIMMT! (Aber leider sind auch einige der 'wonderful people' nicht mehr dabei, das finde ich schade.)


    Aber, wie schon angedeutet, (besonders) ihr beiden bringt mich neben der "freundlichen Wertschätzung" auch häufig zum Schmunzeln:

    "There’s something Sisypheanly horrid about the idea."

    "I keep asking myself how one can be annihilated eternally (or throughout eternally)... sounds like such a one-time deal ; )"


    PS: Was ist eigentlich der Unterschied zwischen 'giggle', 'snicker' und 'snigger', falls es einen gibt?

    #17Authorkarla13 (1364913)  06 Oct 22, 16:59
    Comment

    Re (#13): "I keep asking myself how one can be annihilated eternally.."


    I think the underlying concept is this: A person is either a believer in eternal life, or is not. A non-believer has to accept the terrifying realization that after their death, they are obliterated for all eternity. A believer, on the other hand, has to be petrified at the thought of an eternity of punishment for their sins.


    What I keep asking myself is, why didn't Pascal (as a deeply religious person) consider a third possibility: an eternity of bliss for the righteous?

    #18AuthorMartin--cal (272273) 06 Oct 22, 18:28
    Comment

    PS: Was ist eigentlich der Unterschied zwischen 'giggle', 'snicker' und 'snigger', falls es einen gibt?

    @Karla13, ahem, sorry...

    I'd say giggle is relatively neutral, a short cheerful amused laugh.Often one that "escapes" you but not always.

    "snicker" is probably something that snuck out, it is quiet and most likely at someone else's expense (I was snickering at White Claw's expense in a way, because the idea that the trendy drink might be carried over in the German frame of reference as toilet paper made me laugh).

    "snigger" is similar to snicker, I think, maybe with even a tad more of the sneer factor? I don't really use that one much. I have a vague sense that it's more likely to be used than snicker in connection adolescent sex-related humor? Not sure tho.

    #19AuthorAE procrastinator (1268904)  06 Oct 22, 18:44
    Comment

    Re #19


    Danke!


    (I was snickering at White Claw's expense in a way, because the idea that the trendy drink might be carried over in the German frame of reference as toilet paper made me laugh).

    [Me too!]

    #20Authorkarla13 (1364913) 06 Oct 22, 21:29
     
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